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Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 08/31/2005 : 1:26:04 PM
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My carbine bears an unusual combination of comb disc and stock disc.

1. The brass comb disc merely bears the two letters "NP." (with the dot after the P only).

2. The stock disc is a grey disc (aluminium or zinc) with the number "1".

Could that have been a carbine used by Norma (NP) for their military ammo testing?

The other potential explanation - thinking about it again after some years - would be that the carbine belonged to the Norma Projektilfabrik factory guard.
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Edited by - Carcano on 06/24/2007 7:07:27 PM



Dutchman
Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum
USA
1439 Posts
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 12:04:53 PM
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Just a wild guess on my part.. If there was a NP stamp on the wrist I'd say it could be Norma Projectile (or Norma Precision). We certainly know that the NP stamp shows up on m/96 rifles on the wrist as NP was an approved FSR gunsmith depot. I've not seen nor heard of it showing up on m/94 carbines and lacking the wrist stamp I'd suggest it is instead a unit designation.. of some type.



Carcano
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 1:19:06 PM
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I may be forgiven for pulling this item to the top again... I just thought that with the meanwhile publication of a new book, and with constantly new knowledge being unearthed, maybe somebody could come up with a deciphering now?

My own guess is that it might indeed have been an "ammo testing" carbine, because its barrel has seen many more shots than most Swedish guns, I would say. Also, the wood has been more heavily (thus presumably more frequently) been oiled than any other Swedish gun I have seen.
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Edited by - Carcano on 07/16/2007 12:49:22 PM



JK
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 7:38:00 PM
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Hello Carcano
A picture or two would be most welcome. Also, the year it was made.



Carcano
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 8:07:09 PM
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Made in 1903, serial no. 19853 (matching), inspector R.B.

I have now scanned the discs. On the left buttstock side, the shafts of three brass nails are visible; no idea what was there before, but the stock seems lightly sanded and re-oiled (a long time ago) at that area.

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Carcano/200762465056_m94-1.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Carcano/200762465127_m94-2.jpg
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120.28 KB

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Carcano/20076246522_m94-3.jpg
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189.97 KB

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Edited by - Carcano on 06/24/2007 06:54:09 AM



Dutchman
Posted - 06/24/2007 : 9:14:23 PM
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This is an absolute WAG (wild ass guess)... sort of..

In 1903 there was a purchse of a large number of m/94 carbines by the Marine District Northern Command. Normally we see aluminum discs bearing MDN stamping. In once instance we've seen Vsy on that same comb disc indicating the Swedish naval ship Visby. It would not be a far stretch to speculate that this may be the origin of your carbine and disc. If it was another year aside from 1903 I couldn't make this suggestion, but the 1903 carbines have been coming in one after the other with navy disc indicating navy use. Usually these carbines are m/94 without any bayonet attachment but some have been through the conversion. I'd say this is more likely than Norma association.



Carcano
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 3:55:07 PM
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I have tried to look a bit... in a reasonable time frame, there were the destroyer HMS Norrköping and the submarines HMS Nordkaparen and HMS Neptun. But how were ship names abreviated - as VSY. or rather as Vsy, as you wrote? This latter ship was a destroyer commissioned in 1942, and I believe the Vsy disc rather belonged to the naval base guard detachment there.



Dutchman
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 4:45:06 PM
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My mistake, Vby is the disc and it was mounted on the handle of a m/1915 carbine naval bayonet, not the carbine but the information was that there would have been a corresponding disc on the carbine. This is pictured in Crown Jewels page 257 and the same disc is pictured:
http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/disc.html

Remember, I'm only suggesting this is the path to the NP mark on your carbine. I'm not saying it is definitive.



Carcano
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:07:54 PM
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I have been to the range now (for the second time, with this carbine). Again, the performance was not good. Against common prejudice, not *all* Swedish guns shoot well :). Maybe its barrel was just shot out.

I was shooting it at 50 metres, forestock rested on a hard rest, using Swedish m/41 milsurp (code 61 026) and PMC match ammo (140 gr Sierra MatchKing HPBT, lot number ELD 6.5 SMA001); fired two five-shots groups of each, allowing the barrel to cool down a bit in between, by alternating this carbine with a Carcano Moschetto M 38 TS in 8x57 IS.

Group sizes (of 10 shots) were 2.5" x 2.75" with the Swedish military ammo, and 4.25" x 2.75" with the PMC (though the latter height spread may have been due to a rather hot barrel). The military ammo however showed its impacts rather evenly distributed, while the PMC Match had a clearly clustered "center of group" with 6 shots. The PMC bullet holes were very sooty, so I suppose that rather deep grooves were responsible for the less-than-prime accuracy (the 6,5mm Swedish originally had these 6,75mm grooves, and I guess that the original m/94 type 156 grains roundnose bullets with their expectable obturation fit would have shot better in the carbine).
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Edited by - Carcano on 07/16/2007 12:55:16 PM



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 07:13:47 AM
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My third range test this Tuesday proved a lot more satisying. The m/94-14 carbine shot a lot better than I had previously experienced, in spite of its rather used and somewhat rough bore. I test-fired several groups of five shots each, again at 50 metres, same conditions. Swedish m/41 prickskytte milsurp (another maker and year though), Igman 9,1 grams softpoint, FNM Target FMJ, PMC GameKing, Sellier & Bellot. The groups of five were quite encouraging with Igman and the milsurp. It liked Igman ammo and m/41 prickskytte milsurp best, disliked FNM Target, and hated PMC Gamekings. Quite choosy indeed ;-).

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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano
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Edited by - Carcano on 08/01/2007 07:14:34 AM

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