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Silver Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #1
I ran across it today. The metal may be refinished, but it it has a matching bolt & buttplate. The mag floorplate is not numbered. All parts of the bolt, the buttplate and the mag housing were either E-arrow or R-arrow marked. I could see no marks on the bands or nosecap. The wood is VG+ and has a strong "English Contract" stamp on the left butt flat and no marks on the right — I'm not sure if the wood has been refinished; I suspect it has. The rifle has no import marks and a VG bore/muzzle. The barrel-shank top has several U.S. eagle/# proof stamps, and both imperial eagles are present on the receiver flat/barrel shank. The Westinghouse logo is the straight-line later one. In short, I think it's the real deal but it looks too good -- again, I suspect the metal and maybe the wood has been refinished.

What should a guy offer to pay for such a rifle, assuming it was still available?
 

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I thought the Westinghouse M91S did not have an eagle on the reciever. Are you sure about the eagle? They ususally are on the barrel shank but not the reciever. My example also has no number on the mag floorplate. I also believe the Westinghouse barrel bands were not blued.
It may not be refinished, the original wood finish was shellac. Unless the rifle was stored in very good conditions, or coated with a preservative, its should show some signs of ageing of the finish, but it could be very little.
The fact that it looks refinished could be a bargaining chip, but if its original and in that fine condition, it would be worth significantly more than $300. Of course that statement is based on it being in virtually perfect original condition. Considering there was no air conditioning, during most of its ewxistence, to help with preservation it would almost have to be in a low humidity environment, and coated with some form of preservative (probably grease of something similar) to be in the condition described.

regards
badger
 

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Westinghouse pic

Most of the Westinghouse rifles (but certainly not all) have lighter wood color than the Remingtons.

regards
badger
 

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"I also believe the Westinghouse barrel bands were not blued."

I am pretty sure this N.E.W. is original - The barrel bands on this one are blued...

Pahtu.
 

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My Westinghoue also has blued barrel bands. But I don't believe mine are correct as it is a marked Finn Capture and the the bands don't look anything like Pahtus rifle.
 

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It sounds pretty original to me. What specifically makes you think that the metal and stock were refinished? I don't believe NEW shellaced their stocks based on my NEW which appears unissued and was still covered in cosmoline when I got it. The bands on my rifle are blued, but they are not as dark as the rest of the rifle. NEW also did not number floor plates of the mags and my stock is lighter as mentioned by Badger. It sounds worth at least $300 with the possibility of being worth much more if it's proven not to be refinished.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The wood is a bit lighter than that on Remington original wood (at least the ones I have or have seen). I'm now thinking the wood may be original. The metal may be another matter -- it has a darker, slightly flat deep blue, and the barrel-shank markings were not deep. (I do understand that Westinghouse marks are usually lighter impressions.) I think the bands were blued. It wasn't the greatest light at the show where I spotted the rifle, so I'm not completely sure about my observations on the wood and metal finish.

By he way, this was at the MWCA show in St. Paul, Minnesota, this weekend. The guy who owned it said he's had it a long time and hasn't messed with it. He was asking $550, and most people were cruising right by it, probably thinking it's just an overpriced M91 offered by a dealer who didn't know any better. However, at least three other gunboards members were at the show -- maybe they can add their views, or maybe one of them got it. I didn't go back for the rifle Sunday or contact the guy, so he may have sold it. I will give him a call soon....
 

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stock cartouche

Phatu, I am not saying anything unequivocably. It would be foolish to state as fact something about a gun that was made at least 32 years before I was born. here is a pic of the cartouche on my stock, interestingly enough yours has a mark that mine does not. I can just about state as fact this one has not been refinished in any way. Phatu your gun is in much nicer condition than mine. I believe the wood on yours is black walnut. I have seen many Finn stocks that look too light. I would bet they started out as NEW guns. I also had a 28-30 that has a wrist crossbolt in exactly the same place as my NEW. Another thing I have noticed about NEWs is they have the crossbolt centered in the rear of the finger groove, while the Remingtons do not.

The "flat" appearance of your blue (original poster) is probably correct. Its the beginning of patination due to age in the surface finish. At $550 it has to be all correct, I had a chance to pick one up for $600 here about a year ago, but thought that was too much at the time. A Remington auction just closed on Gunbroker, where the high bid didn't reach $900, and the reserve was not met with a buy it now of over $2500.

Ted is right about the original finish making a huge difference in value.

What I state is based on my own memory and observation. Take it for what its worth, which is one persons observation (no more, no less just like your own). I try to clearly state when something is my opinion, and you dont want to hear my response when you (no one in particular) go off on some quote and deragatory response to any contribution I might make.
If I notice my observations do not confirm someone elses, I simply relay what I have observed, which can easily be completely different fron any one else. That changes nothing.

regards
badger
 

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Ok, now I'm home. I wanted to post some pics of my original NEW for comparison. It has the lighter stock. Barrel bands are noticeably lighter than the other metal on the rifle. The bluing as mentioned by Badger has the mentioned flat appearance. These aren't my best photos of this rifle, but they were at hand. Hope this helps.
 

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I saw the rifle Bamba mentioned, interesting but nothing I considered buying. I don't know enough about "original" Westinghouse rifles to contribute much, but some of the shank markings looked to me as though they might have been touched up. I also observed it to be all-matching, non-import marked and not Finned. A gentlemen came to our table yesterday afternoon and looked over the Mosin-Nagants we had set up, and jokingly said "but where is the Westinghouse?" - I told him where this one was and he practically RAN to the other side of the show to look it over. Last I saw he was holding it and talking to the seller, not sure if he bought it but he was in a BIG hurry to get over to see it.
 

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I saw it in passing, looked to be refinished to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ok, now I'm home. I wanted to post some pics of my original NEW for comparison. It has the lighter stock. Barrel bands are noticeably lighter than the other metal on the rifle. The bluing as mentioned by Badger has the mentioned flat appearance. These aren't my best photos of this rifle, but they were at hand. Hope this helps.
Yup, this is pretty close to what it looked like (minus the cats)! I might have gone ahead and bought it if it came with two kitties....
 

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"I simply relay what I have observed, which can easily be completely different fron any one else. That changes nothing."

Sure, so do I =+)

My experience with N.E.W. M91's started about two years ago when I bought my first SA N.E.W. & then with my latest purchase last Feb of this N.E.W. M91 - Other than that I am still on a learning curve about these interesting weapons - Only thing I can report is what I have observed first hand - Just like most other folks =+)

Pahtu.
 

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I, too, just saw this in passing, when I went past the table the guy was gone, so I didn't pick it up to look closely.
I agree that it could have been refinished, just looked awful good for something that old. Then again....
I didn't go back for another look after Bampa mentioned the asking price!
 
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