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dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 07:22:53 AM
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Am I in the wrong site? I thought there were Werndl collectors here or at least WWI collectors. Both werndls are extremely rare--I've never seen a second in the US in 10 years of collecting! The m1867 is a unmodified original 1867--look at the sight--it goes to 1400. The other rifle has an internal hammer--m1873/77. I know that one has not been shown on this site before! Comments? Moderators--am I right?
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

John Wall
Platinum Bullet Club



USA
2414 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 10:07:19 AM
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Hi dg13,
Although I'm not a Werdl collector, it's only because I've never run into a nice one since I learned what they were. I saw plenty of them in Iran and Afghanistan years ago but had no reference material to consult. As a result, they all stayed in-country....much to my current regret.

I do have J. Schui's (sp?) book on the Werndl, but it's taking me awhile to work my way through the German to come up with questions for you!

In any case, thanks for posting those two rifle models for us to compare.
Best Regards,
John

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Edited by - John Wall on 03/04/2004 12:39:34 PM


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:42:23 AM
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Hi John--I just got a new digital and just got my collection out of storage(it's been 2 years since I've seen it) I've gotten excited over seeing my lil' babies for sooo long!!! Thanks for your post.
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
935 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 2:55:32 PM
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It's JOSCHI SCHUY. He does first-class work.


Broomhandle
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
380 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 7:13:39 PM
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I know what you mean. I posted photos of my Werndl 1867, also with original sights and chambered for 11mm Mauser (.43 Mauser). I had a few replys but no real interest. One reply was very helpful in contacting a collector in Austria who attested to it's being one of a kind if original (which it is). Maybe it has limited appeal and awareness.

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Semper Fi
NRA Patron Member


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 7:25:50 PM
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Hi broomhandle--I think that the problem is that no one realy collects werndls. The only reason I became interested in them is when I realized that they were trully a WWI weapon. Over the years my favorite WWI country became Austria Hungary. A truly original M1867 never modified is very very rare--where did you find yours? Not many poeple realize that the sights are everything in id'ing these pupies!!
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector



USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 8:20:48 PM
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Yo Darrell,

I love your Werndls, almost (but not quite) as much as I love my own! I have ten rifles and seven carbines, many of which are extremely rare. I have held off replying until I arrived home from Taiwan this afternoon. When I get settled in (including some sleep!), we will have a veritable Werndl-Fest and I will add my photos to yours!

I have a very nice Model 1873/77, but have never found an unaltered Model 67 like your early, unaltered rifle. I do, however, have an unaltered Model 67 Cavalry carbine that retains it's original Model 67 carbine sight. The carbine is perhaps even a tad more rare than your rifle considering there were fewer carbines produced.


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Rarer than all of these combined is my Model 1873-77 Werndl Finanz-Gewehr, which is one of only 1149 examples produced for the Guards of the Austro-Hungarian Treasury Department.


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Neat stuff! I am an unabashed Werndl fan. I shot a nice 8 point in Texas this year at 90 yards with the Model 1867-77 Werndl I shoot all the time at the range.


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I'll add more tomorrow or over the weekend when I catch up on my sleep. Neat rifles!

Warmest regards,

JPS


Russianblood
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
484 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 10:37:12 PM
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My father picked up an excellent condition Werndl M77 in 11.15x58Rmm at a flea market. Anybody know where to get the bayonet for it?


JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector



USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 9:22:21 PM
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Yo Gents,

Here are some additional photos for the Werndl-fest!

Here is an extremely rare Model 1867 Cavalry carbine with the original M1867 rear sight with a maximum range setting for 600 Schritt. The Cavalry carbine can be differentiated by the location of the rear sling swivel on the front of the trigger guard. The swivel is very unusual as well with an offset to only one side. The Extra-Korp-Gewehr swivel is located on the underside of the butt stock. As compared to the later variations and the refinishing of original production carbines, when first produced, the Werndl carbines were finished completely in the white.


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For comparison, here is the rear sight from an upgraded Model 1867/77 Cavalry carbine. It has a maximum slide setting of 1400 Schritt for the more powerful M77 carbine patronen.

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Here is a Model 1867/77 Extra-Korp-Gewehr carbine. The Extra-Korp-Gewehr's were produced in several different vbariations, most of which were issued with the Model 1867 socket bayonet. Other variations exist which were designed to mount the Model 1870 and Model 1873 variations of the rifle sword bayonet.



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Here is the later Model 1873/77 Extra-Korp-Gewehr. Unlike the Model 1867 carbine variations, all of the Model 73 variations had a trigger guard spur. These carbines also were produced in several variations, including versions which accepted the Model 70 and 73 bayonets rather than just the Model 1867 socket bayonet. I'll have to shoot some photos over the weekend of the sword bayonet variation in my collection. The carbine pictured below has a beautiful tiger striped stock.


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I'll take some more photos this weekend and add them to this thread. Have a great weekend!

Yo Darrell, How about some detailed close ups of the Model 67 rifle sight! I would love to have a good look at the detail of this rare original variation. Thanks for kick starting the Werndls!

Warmest regards,

JPS

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Edited by - JPS on 03/05/2004 9:24:19 PM


DocAV
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



Australia
3278 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 12:03:10 AM
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Dear JPS, JW, dg13 et al; I can understand the lack of response to the Werndl; I saw my first one (came from Afghanistan) some 35 years ago at an auction in Brisbane: It was (Wait for it) rebarrelled to
.303 British (black powder or Nitro film powder) and complete with a Tong tool (Lyman style, but twice as big) for reloading and casting 200 grain roundnose .303 and digging out berdan primers)

The next Werndl I saw was at the home of a dear(now deceased) Italian friend in Italy in the 1970s...a Mountain hunting carbine in 6,5 Carcano, made using a Werndl Action (ex military); he only used it with "tiro ridotto" (Conus)solid cases for indoor shooting...he had the entire kit, long battery cup primers, steel false cartridges, lead projectiles, and the Italian issue reloading tool: at his death, it all "disappeared" and was not to be found in his estate.

I subsequently acquired Marco Morin's book on "Le Armi del Impero Austro-Ungarico, 1600 a 1918" which details the Werndl in its major models and chamberings were well.
I then acquired two Werndls in the period 1990-2000, both of East African (Abyssinia) provenance.

Not many people in Australia know what or where a Werndl is,unless they have some Austrian or African Gun Connection.
So I am not surprised that there is also such ignorance of the Werndl in the US.
I would like to get the mentioned book from Austria, even if my German is not too good, but it would be a boost to my "Knowledge" database.

regards, Doc AV



dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 5:51:31 PM
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JPS--M1867 SIGHT:

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I'LL TRY NOT TO DUPLICATE:

HERE'S A RARE ONE -- AN EXERZIERGEWEHR M 1867: SCHUY PG89


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THE TRIGGERGUARD & 1 BAND IS BRASS--PROBABLY SOME NAVAL SCHOOL. NO UNIT MARK. THE BARREL IS HALF WOOD AND HALF METAL. IT HAS A REGULAR WERNDL LOCK ON IT WHICH THE CADETS COULD FIRE PERCUSSION CAPS.


NEXT:

EXTRA-KORPS-GEWEHR M 1867/77 SCHEY PG111

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NEXT A BURGERWEWEHR M1873/77 SHORT RIFLE OR CARBINE?

This oe is special--it was issued as a regular werndl and arsenally cut down to carbine lenth. Schuy pg193. No unit marks and the sight is NOT BANDED. Heino h. suggests that it was part of the "state or local guard" It has a 1877 sight & the barrel is marked "Pt72St81". I've never seen Pt before.
ENJOY!
DG13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 6:03:38 PM
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SORRY GUYS--I'm just learning my new camera and cannot get the sizeing right. Here is the Burgergewehre M1867/77.

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


Broomhandle
Gunboards Super Premium Member



USA
380 Posts
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 08:17:17 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by dg13

Hi broomhandle--I think that the problem is that no one realy collects werndls. The only reason I became interested in them is when I realized that they were trully a WWI weapon. Over the years my favorite WWI country became Austria Hungary. A truly original M1867 never modified is very very rare--where did you find yours? Not many poeple realize that the sights are everything in id'ing these pupies!!
dg13

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My wife found it in an antique store 20 years ago and paid $100. for it. She knew nothing about it but hoped I would like it. I did ....

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Semper Fi
NRA Patron Member


WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
935 Posts
Posted - 03/09/2004 : 1:12:33 PM
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Schuy currently working on a book on Austrian semi-auto pistols and accessories; should be out "in a few years."


John Sukey
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
9613 Posts
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 4:10:27 PM
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If its any help, I have a load of N.D.F.S. brass that a friend sent over for me to sell for him, and several sets of dies.
 
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