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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A thought just came to me that I've never ever read about a Garand being used against us during WWII. We all know that there were battle field pickups. The SVT40 was picked up and reissued by both the Finns and the Germans during the war. But, I've never read or heard about any Garands falling into the hands of the enemy and reused against us.

Does anyone know about this? If it's true, are there any Garands out there with foreign (enemy) markings that would designate them as true, battle field pickups? I'd say no since the 30.06 was not a caliber that the Germans, Italians, or Japanese could readily obtain while the venerable 7.62 x 54R Russian ammo was pretty prolific.

Any thoughts out there??

Rome
 

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When the Germans invaded Russia, they were initialy very successful, capturing hundreds of miles of territory, and hundreds of throusands of troops and their weapons, and large ammo stockpiles. Their need for a semi auto battle rifle and there ability to reissue and supply those they captured from the Russians made a perfect match.

When the US got involved in a big way in the ground war with the invasion of France in 1944, the Germans were already on the defensive on all fronts. Except for local counter attacks, they stayed on the defensive on the Western front. The Battle of the Bulge being the big exception. They didn't have the opportunity to capture large amounts of US small arms and ammo as they did in Russia. The only other picture I have seen of German troops using US weapons was also in the Battle of the Bulge, and the soldier was carrying a M1 carbine. I did read a first hand account by a German Soldier in the Battle of Berlin and he stated that he carried a "US Machine Pistol", because his previous battle experience was on the Eastern Front, I suspect he was referring to one of the thousands of Thompson Submachine Guns furnished to the Soviets early in the war. As the Germans did manufacture .45 ammo he would have perhaps had access to re-supply.
 

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When the Germans invaded the soviet union, they captured immense stockpiles of weapons and ammunition. I read somewhere that the Germans captured so much ammunition that they never ran out.

The only battles I can think of at the moment where US units were overrun on a scale that would have allowed for captures of stockpiles were in North Africa and the Battle of the Bulge. However, I doubt that the Germans captured enough supplies in those battles to support reissuing US weapons to their troops.
 

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the middle picture (.50 M2)is very interesting - they look like "early war" german uniforms and equipment to me - that is not a Battle of the Bulge pick up IMHO I wonder where they got it ?

the last Pic (carbine) is during the BotB, and one of a whole series of famous pics and film of german troops looting a wrecked US convoy taken at Poteau - much of this particular imagery was shot as posed propaganda and again IMHO cannot be taken as evidence that Germans used M1 carbines in action -not saying they didn't just dont rely on this pic

interesting thread

regards

Richard
 

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The Germans did capture U.S. equipment during the battle of the bulge. I recently read a book "Seven roads to hell" by Donald R. Burgett where he recounts the 101st capturing a fully armed Sherman tank that had been captured and remarked by the Nazis a few days earlier. It stands to reason that there would have been U.S. small arms captured and used but the numbers I feel would have to be incredably small. I doubt also that a field soldier would take the time to property mark a rifle as a armory would after recieving a large scale capture so tracking the history would be difficult at best (IMHO).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, it is interesting. Still, however, no photos of a German using a Garand. I've seen a few of the Germans using the SVT similar to the one on the left. The Garand photo is still elusive, however.

I understand, too, the timing of the war as the last few posters mentioned. That makes perfect sense and that observation alone was worth posting this thread. Cool.

Rome
 

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There are multiple accounts of shermans being captured by german troops and used against the US forces. I don't doubt that US rifles were captured and used as well, but that would not be as obvious to a foot soldier, as a captured tank coming your way. So it is less likely to be documented. I think the only way we will ever know, is to find photos like the one shown above.

BTW HillBilly Burgett's books are excellent reads. If you want a better overview of the battle of the bulge, read "The Battered Bastards of Bastogne" by George E Koskimaki. It is not an account by one person, but by many.
 

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There are multiple accounts of shermans being captured by german troops and used against the US forces. I don't doubt that US rifles were captured and used as well, but that would not be as obvious to a foot soldier, as a captured tank coming your way. So it is less likely to be documented. I think the only way we will ever know, is to find photos like the one shown above.

BTW HillBilly Burgett's books are excellent reads. If you want a better overview of the battle of the bulge, read "The Battered Bastards of Bastogne" by George E Koskimaki. It is not an account by one person, but by many.
Always looking for a good read, thanks ThreeJs.
 

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Seems to be lots of credible evidence of the Japanese useing the Garand during WWII. I suspect largely because of hold-outs running out of ammo. It is amazing how long some of the Japanese fought on after the Island they were on was considered secured by the US.

The North Koreans and Chinese used a lot of captured M1 Garands during the Korean war. Lots of film footage and photos backing this up. The Chinese had lots of .30-06 to go with the M1903 and M1917 provided them during WWII and the Revolution, and useing M1s was natural considering the length of their supply lines.

On use of captured weapons by German soldiers - there is a book called something like "It Never Snows in September". It's another book on the war in Holland covered also by "A Bridge Too Far". In it a German paratrooper talks about how much they liked captured STEN SMG because the vertical mag allowed a lower profile when fireing from a laying position. Several pictures of German paratroopers carrying STENs in the Battle of the Bulge are available.
 

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Seems to be lots of credible evidence of the Japanese useing the Garand during WWII. I suspect largely because of hold-outs running out of ammo. It is amazing how long some of the Japanese fought on after the Island they were on was considered secured by the US.

The North Koreans and Chinese used a lot of captured M1 Garands during the Korean war. Lots of film footage and photos backing this up. The Chinese had lots of .30-06 to go with the M1903 and M1917 provided them during WWII and the Revolution, and useing M1s was natural considering the length of their supply lines.

On use of captured weapons by German soldiers - there is a book called something like "It Never Snows in September". It's another book on the war in Holland covered also by "A Bridge Too Far". In it a German paratrooper talks about how much they liked captured STEN SMG because the vertical mag allowed a lower profile when fireing from a laying position. Several pictures of German paratroopers carrying STENs in the Battle of the Bulge are available.


the Japanese actually made a few M1 Garands near the end of the war.

here are some photo's of Japanese Garands.

the guy holding the japanese garand is the curator at the Springfield Armory.
the parts photo's are from a private collection.

Dave
 

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On use of captured weapons by German soldiers - there is a book called something like "It Never Snows in September". It's another book on the war in Holland covered also by "A Bridge Too Far". In it a German paratrooper talks about how much they liked captured STEN SMG because the vertical mag allowed a lower profile when fireing from a laying position. Several pictures of German paratroopers carrying STENs in the Battle of the Bulge are available.
The Germans also made a copy of the Sten with a vertical mag like the mp40 instead of the horizontal as was carried by the Brits. The German copy was designated the M3008 and was a "last ditch" made for the Volkstrum.
 

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As already mentioned, I too doubt that the Germans captured any large quantities of US weapons, when compared to the numbers captured from the Russians and British (Dunkirk).
 

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Interesting jap garand. Hydrid of garand and arisaka parts it appears..

Wonder why any german would want a sherman tank remarked to be nazi!?!?!? They could flame a sherman with pretty much everything they had....
 

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Interesting jap garand. Hydrid of garand and arisaka parts it appears..

Wonder why any german would want a sherman tank remarked to be nazi!?!?!? They could flame a sherman with pretty much everything they had....
The German supply lines were stretched thin they were willing to throw anything they could back at us. A Sherman with a full tank of fuel and a full magazine was probably to much to resist.
 

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One more note the Germans built a tougher tank but they couldn't do one thing, build as many as we could. We beat the Germans with our industrial might and the overwellming tenacity and bravery of our fighting men.
 
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