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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just love an untouched rifle (don't we all). Here's Japanese used Vz-24, with Kanji written on the back of the sling. Appears to be the numerals "687" and I wonder what that denotes? The "untouched" mentioned includes screws, springs, bands that are unbuggered. I wonder just how many of these are around?
 

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Nice rifle Bob. It is lovely. I was fortunate enough to get my P-prefix from Doss White years ago. I think I speak for the group, that we miss him and all he did for this collecting community. RIP Doss
 

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Nice Rifle Bob. Just needs a wipe down. The sling is really a nice finishing touch. You don't see many complete rigs like this around. Congrats.
 

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Very nice! Me Likey :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the thumbs up, and Tex, your example is darn close.

Questions.... I assume the numerals on the sling would be for a quick rifle ID? Are these thought to be primarily training examples? I did read Fred's book and the 4 theories about these... any more insights on these Vz-24s?
 

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Sir,
That is a beautiful VZ especially with the confirming Japanese marked sling, looked for one w/marked sling for years, always a bit pricey. I did pick up one eventually (no sling) a little over a hundred digits away from yours, in good condition/matching, but no marks. Always wondered if it was part of the 40k order, now I feel better that perhaps the P 67xxx run of a thousand was. Sold it a few years ago, sort of wish I still had it.
Any way, very nice find
 

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Interesting and uncommon CZ rifle. I have a P prefix but it is not Japanese shipped or marked. Nice to see these goodies. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sir,
That is a beautiful VZ especially with the confirming Japanese marked sling.... Always wondered if it was part of the 40k order, now I feel better that perhaps the P 67xxx run of a thousand was.
Thanks. Were these, in fact, part of a 40K order? Can someone please elaborate on this, beyond Fred H's 4 theories he wrote about in Military Rifles of Japan?
 

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Really nice one Bob, and the Czech sling looks great too.
I can't remember the serial number range these fall into, but I know a lot were in the 60K's.
 

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Argh, these photos are killing me. I’m still looking for a nice, clean example of a P or C contract VZ24. A while back, I had a number of various contract mausers, but sold or traded them all off save for one Portuguese 98k.

Having a Japanese contract VZ24 would be a perfect rifle for me—it bridges two favorites, just can’t find one that’s matching and clean. I should post a WTB and start begging.
 

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Thanks. Were these, in fact, part of a 40K order? Can someone please elaborate on this, beyond Fred H's 4 theories he wrote about in Military Rifles of Japan?
Hello Bob, you mention Fred H., may I add John Wall, these two gentlemen in my opinion are the foremost experts on the subject. When I was collecting, instead of selling, I read everything they they wrote. I can not remember (memory shot) which one gained access to the Czech archives and validated the 40k Japanese Navy order, but how the order was filled, series and blocks etc., was not recorded. My opinion (along w/$5 and get a cup of coffee) is that anything sent to China, P and C series would be pressed into service upon receipt, having a revolution going on and the Japanese incursion, most of those rifles would be well worn and shot out (a period of 4+ years) and these may account for the capture theory. But the Japanese marked P series, at least the ones I have seen, are usually in good condition and matching and reinforce the theory that they are part of the original order.
Would love to hear more myself, if any new information is out there.
 

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Japanese made 7.92 ammo which might have been used in these rifles as well as various MGs. This stuff is quite rare and these are the only examples of it I've ever seen. Note the unusual stripper clips. Unfortunately the box is missing the top but the bottom markings are clear
 

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I lucked into similar example with kanji marked sling years ago. In my opinion these , like type I's, these were used for training. I don't know if there's any first hand combat use stories or photos to prove otherwise
 

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Hello Bob, you mention Fred H., may I add John Wall, these two gentlemen in my opinion are the foremost experts on the subject. When I was collecting, instead of selling, I read everything they they wrote. I can not remember (memory shot) which one gained access to the Czech archives and validated the 40k Japanese Navy order, but how the order was filled, series and blocks etc., was not recorded. My opinion (along w/$5 and get a cup of coffee) is that anything sent to China, P and C series would be pressed into service upon receipt, having a revolution going on and the Japanese incursion, most of those rifles would be well worn and shot out (a period of 4+ years) and these may account for the capture theory. But the Japanese marked P series, at least the ones I have seen, are usually in good condition and matching and reinforce the theory that they are part of the original order.
Would love to hear more myself, if any new information is out there.
Mariposa, I dug out my research on the VZ-24. Banzai put out a booklet on the rifle years ago, but I don't have a copy and do not know what was reported. Anyway, the Czech factory sent the following info. Japan expressed an interest in purchase of 40,000 rifles in Nov, 1938. Contract was concluded in January, 1939, and rifles were delivered after March 15, 1939 (after German occupation of Czechoslovakia). Interestingly, 15,200 rifles were sent to China in 1937, 73,000 in 1938. The factory had no records on serial numbers. So, Japan could have also picked up some in China, and some sent to China could be P series. I do believe serial numbers sent to Japan were not consecutive. For example, my next door neighbor had a 2-digit '37 date picked up in Tokyo, and I have had a couple vet pick ups in Tokyo with high serial numbers (would have to go to my records for serial numbers). And most all I've seen have had the nice leather sling with kanji markings. And I do know I've got to update the book.
 

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Mariposa, I dug out my research on the VZ-24. Banzai put out a booklet on the rifle years ago, but I don't have a copy and do not know what was reported. Anyway, the Czech factory sent the following info. Japan expressed an interest in purchase of 40,000 rifles in Nov, 1938. Contract was concluded in January, 1939, and rifles were delivered after March 15, 1939 (after German occupation of Czechoslovakia). Interestingly, 15,200 rifles were sent to China in 1937, 73,000 in 1938. The factory had no records on serial numbers. So, Japan could have also picked up some in China, and some sent to China could be P series. I do believe serial numbers sent to Japan were not consecutive. For example, my next door neighbor had a 2-digit '37 date picked up in Tokyo, and I have had a couple vet pick ups in Tokyo with high serial numbers (would have to go to my records for serial numbers). And most all I've seen have had the nice leather sling with kanji markings. And I do know I've got to update the book.

Thank you Mr. Honeycutt for the information, always appreciated, take care
 
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