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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
thort you might like to see what has to happen to the Volquartsen pistol so's we can have it here in yUK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF4SF81WkE4

There only reason that I don't have one is that I'm just too poor and too much of a coward, too.

Mrs tac would skin me with a lawnmower if I spent $3000+ on ANY kind of a .22 pistol-ly thing.

Oh, one last thing, eh? Positively no flaming, 'kay?

BTW, THIS is my Ruger Super Redhawk, UK-legal version......standard ROA underneath, of course.



tac
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Are you allowed to use those revolvers,for hunting also?.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

No.

Sorry, that really gave me a laff.

We don't actually hunt anything here in UK. We 'stalk' deer, and shoot vermin. If it isn't a deer, then it's either pest control or target shooting, except for the veterinarian who needs a means of putting down a large animal - THEY can have a single or two-shot version of most any handgun they fancy.

Gamebirds are shot with shotguns, or, if they are pests, like pigeons, magpies et al, with an air rifle.

Foxes are the only other animal that can be shot with shotgun or rifle, but you have to be certificated - and authorised - to use the firearm for that purpose.

And talking about purpose, here in UK that purpose is legally called 'good reason' and the 'good reasons' for owning any kind of firearm are as follows -

1. Target shooting of any kind. Please note that target shooting here is the formalised, on-an-authorised-range- type target shooting, NOT, as I've seen in NZ, shooting off your back porch at that rock way over there.

2. Game shooting - that means deer - feral hogs [where applicable] - there is nothng else - the Romans killed all the bears, and wolves [in Scotland] are a protected species, having just been re-introduced into the wild. This category also applies to game management on estates and crown land by professional game wardens as well as the hundreds of thousands of 'leisure' deer-stalkers for whom it is a sport.

3. Pest control - foxes, corvids, magpies, pigeon, rabbits etc - small game - for sport or profession.

4. Veterinary purposes - humane despatch of large animals injured in RTAs and so on.

Here is the big thing - IF you are certificated to do target shooting, then you are prohibited in law from using your firearm for any other purpose. To do so will attract very serious penalties - huge fines, seizure of your firearms, maybe even jail.

If you are authorised to use your gun for pest control, then you cannot also shoot targets, and so on.

UNLESS you join a target shooting gun-club, and therefore have need to use your firearms for both purposes. For the purpose of zeroing, most deer-stalkers are also members of a gun club, or may, at the good will of the gun club official, bring their gun along on the odd occasion to zero it in or to prove a new reload or ammunition.

Needless to say, 'hunting' large animals with any kind of a handgun is prohibited for a number of reasons, not least of which is that you would not be able to get a firearms certificate for a handgun if you said that it was wanted for game shooting of any kind. This kind of firearm is ONLY capable of being authorised for the purpose of target shooting - nothing else. To get the firearms certificate in the first place you have to be a gun club member for six months, or to use an estate rifle under supervision for a similar period of time. In either case, the stated 'good' reason has to be apposite - target shooting or deer-stalking. They are NOT interchangeable 'good reasons'.

Besides, there is not a single handgun that goes anywhere near meeting the velocity or muzzle energy requirements for taking deer - according to the authorities, of course. Don't expect sense, Sir, where firearms licensing law is concerned.

I have seven centrefire rifles - 2 x .308Win, 2 x 7.5x55, 2 x 7x57 and a 6.5x55SE and a .58cal BP carbine - all are used and authorised ONLY for target shooting. If I wanted to use the centrefires for deer-stalking then I would have to show that I have 'permissions' - suitably assessed areas of land - on which to shoot them, as shown by letters of permission from the land-owner, and then be mentored by the land-owner or another authorised person for a period of three to six months before being granted the entry on my firearms certificate. While it is not [yet] mandatory, having completed DSC Level 1 - the British Deer Society's game management course minimum level, is a good plan.

tac
 

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We must admit, all of those heavy handed regulations do contribute the creative ideas.

BTW, would it be legal in the U.K. for a hobby gunsmith to make his own muzzle loading caplock target pistol?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
We must admit, all of those heavy handed regulations do contribute the creative ideas.

BTW, would it be legal in the U.K. for a hobby gunsmith to make his own muzzle loading caplock target pistol?
With such restrictions as we have here, there is really no such animal as a 'hobby gunsmith' as you understand it in the US of A. But the answer is yes, provided he had the arm pre-permitted on his firearms certificate as a single-shot XXcalibre BP pistol. If he subsequently wished to sell it it would have to be sent to either the London or Birmingham Proof House for examination and proofing - this is the law since 1637. As long as he keeps it himself it does not require proofing per se, although I'm sure that any reputable maker, amateur or not, would use the string, tyre and triple charge method of doing so.

I've made three BP pistols in my time from American kits - one flintlock and two percussion - none were intended to be fired by me. However, they were made for and sold to people who subsequently did so with complete safety and with them legally on their FACs, so I'm told, after THEY drilled the touch-holes through, something that I did not do for them. If I had, I would have been breaking the law in a BIG way.

tac
 

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Believe it or not, tac speaks with a straight tongue.

I do all of the above, other than as a vet, and so have all of those restrictions, plus cannot take any of my collection of Great War and WWII pistols and revolvers out of Bisley.
 

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We can't hunt with handguns here either BTW....only use them for target shooting on a range,or collecting purposes.What I should have asked,was can those extended length cartridge revolvers be used for hunting (as surely they are not technically a 'handgun',but would have to be considered a carbine or rifle to be legal in Britain).Assuming you had permission to hunt somewhere,whatever the animal concerned,and had hunting as your reason for having a FAC?.
 

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In the UK we shooters are like frogs being bolied in a pan and not realizing that the water is hotting up until it is too late. I remember articles in a long defunct (?) Gamekeeper magazine from the late 50's or early 60's regarding the best .22 pistols to be carried by 'keepers on feeding rounds to deal with any vermin they came across.

Section 5 six-shot revolvers in .357 and .44 have been allowed to hunters to deal with wounded deer and boar in recent times.

A warning to the rest of you. Gun bans come in small increments and in the words of Benjamin Franklin, "We had better all hang together or we will all hang separately". The mindset that I will be alright if I give up, say, assault weapons will not work in the long run.

Gwyn
 

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can those extended length cartridge revolvers be used for hunting (as surely they are not technically a 'handgun',but would have to be considered a carbine or rifle to be legal in Britain).Assuming you had permission to hunt somewhere,whatever the animal concerned,and had hunting as your reason for having a FAC?.
As has been said, there is no "hunting" good reason. Live quarry is "vermin control" or "stalking" (deer). It is extremely unlikely that a constabulary would allow a "long barreled pistol" to be used for either, due to the nature of hunting in the UK. Vermin control is carried out with .22 RF and .17HMR rifles for rabbits and other small furry creatures. Larger center fire calibers like .223 for fox and rifles with strictly prescribed muzzle energies for deer.

Section 5 six-shot revolvers in .357 and .44 have been allowed to hunters to deal with wounded deer and boar in recent times.
Most constabularies will not allow unrestricted revolvers and demand that they are restricted to two shots. There have been one or two unrestricted revolvers allowed but those cases are extremely rare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
For Non-UK readers, please note that when BH and I use the term 'good reason' we are not just stringing two words together, as in 'he had a good reason to go shooting'. It is a legal term used with regard to acquiring a firearm via the legal process. It is therefore legal terminology, and describes the justification for firearm ownership on the part of the applicant.

'kay?

tac
 

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We can't hunt with handguns here either BTW....only use them for target shooting on a range,or collecting purposes.What I should have asked,was can those extended length cartridge revolvers be used for hunting (as surely they are not technically a 'handgun',but would have to be considered a carbine or rifle to be legal in Britain).Assuming you had permission to hunt somewhere,whatever the animal concerned,and had hunting as your reason for having a FAC?.
I am lucky in that my wife and I live on 120 acres of hilly, wooded land so I can shoot of my back porch. Your question about handguns able to shoot rifle cartridges certainly is valid. As soon as many states allowed handgun hunting those kind of handguns appeared. When I still hunted deer I used a .357 Mag revolver and some degree of stealth and skill was required. For many years my county only allowed deer hunting with a shotgun slug, muzzleloading rifle or handgun, because most of it is relatively populated. I always thought the use of the type of handguns you asked about was outrageous. The same goes for inline muzzleloading rifles with sabots and crossbows. Except for the few states that have "Primitive gun seasons" most of those are legal in otherwise restricted areas.. I think it certainly takes the sport out of hunting. I don't want legal restrictions, but I wish hunter would consider self restriction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am lucky in that my wife and I live on 120 acres of hilly, wooded land so I can shoot of my back porch. Your question about handguns able to shoot rifle cartridges certainly is valid. As soon as many states allowed handgun hunting those kind of handguns appeared. When I still hunted deer I used a .357 Mag revolver and some degree of stealth and skill was required. For many years my county only allowed deer hunting with a shotgun slug, muzzleloading rifle or handgun, because most of it is relatively populated. I always thought the use of the type of handguns you asked about was outrageous. The same goes for inline muzzleloading rifles with sabots and crossbows. Except for the few states that have "Primitive gun seasons" most of those are legal in otherwise restricted areas.. I think it certainly takes the sport out of hunting. I don't want legal restrictions, but I wish hunter would consider self restriction.
I agree wholeheartedly, Joel, in spite of having a number of rifle calibre handguns when they were allowed here in yUK - .221 Rem Fireball and 7mmBR XP-100, a .308Win Paramount and a 45-70 and .30cal carbine barrels for my Contender. I just used to shoot paper silhouette and LR pistol, except for the .45-70, that was just for fun. Even with the JSK muzzle brake it was, uh, interesting to shoot.

tac
 
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