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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently found a clip of vintage soft point Steyr M95 8x50mm ammo.
Actually I suspect these cartridges were civilian ammo for hunting purpose even if the headstamp is military style.
All of the cartridges are 1904 dated.

Any opinion?



Warmest regards.
 

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SP 8x50R

So-called "Military DumDums" were outlawed in 1899 (Hague Convention) which also put paid to the British .303 mark II Special (the original Factory "Dum-Dum") the Marks III, IV and V, all factory Military expanding Bullets), all of which were either broken up for Blanks, or expended in Range practice. Some did survive to reach collectors these days.

The projectiles shown in the Georg Roth (Vienna) cartridges are typical pre-war sporting projectiles, about 247 grains (matches Military) and used by Austro-Hungarian Hunters in Africa at the time (along with the solids)...soft point for thin skinned dangerous game, solids for thick skinned...a report from a well known AH Military hunter on safari reports(with photos) of Killing TWO rhinos (side by side) with One shot at close range from a M90/95 carbine using M93 Solid (FMJ) in 1903-4.

G R manufactured both military and Sporting ammo using its normal "Military" cases, as was common amongst European makers at the time, the Sporting Quantity being much smaller than the military, and so more economical to use military cases.

If the projectiles had Not been the style shown, or a spitzewr type, then I would suspect a 1920s or 30s "Conversion" of military ammo by Projectile replacement, as was common then;
Are the clips also "GR marked"??? if so, that would point towards 1900s originality. (GR was no longer in Business by the mid 1920s, absorbed by Hirtenberger after WW I.)

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics
 

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alb87,
I bought three clips of antique cartidges this weekend at the gunshow (just for fun). The first is a clip of 8 x 50 Austrian Mannlicher similar to yours but dated 1890, same maker. The second clip is 7mm Mauser with a DWM 1913 headstamp. The last clip is 11.15 x 58R Austrian Werndl M77 (I think, after consulting Cartidges of the World) with a headstamp of 1887 and same GR maker as the 8 x 50. Thanks to DocAV for identifing the maker.
 

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Since most of those M-95 Steyrs seem to have been converted to 8X56 around WW-II, we don't seem to see many of the old 8X50Rs around any more.

I have a straight pull Steyr in it's original chambering, and have lots of fun trying to form cases for it out of 7.62X54R Russian.
I might start loading it with lead bullets and black powder, as I guess it was originally loaded for.

A Dealer at a gun show I went to recently expressed interest in buying it, so I might take it to the next show in the state where he said he'd be and see what I can trade it for. If I can get a decent hex M-91/30 with a good bore out of it, it'll probably be a deal!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Are the clips also "GR marked"??? if so, that would point towards 1900s originality. (GR was no longer in Business by the mid 1920s, absorbed by Hirtenberger after WW I.)
Yes.
Here is a pic.

Thanks a lot guys for your opinions and informations.


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8x50R Factory Sporting Ammo

Thanks for the close-up of the clip and its "GR" mark.

I would most definitely say you have an original G.Roth, pre-WW I clip of Hunting ammo in 8x50R.

These are rare, almost "unobtainium", given the small quantities made, as Hunting before WW I was the preserve of the Rich/Noble/or their Huntsmen.
Whilst the 8x50R could be used on European Boar, Bear and Deer, it was more for Colonial use, and of course, after 1907, also for use in the British Indian area ( That is another story of perfidious British Gun Control. .303 was out, but 8x50R was OK -- so BSA made Lee Enfield Sporters in 8x50R!!!, and Kynoch made some of the ammo, but other makers also got into the market.)

But that is just a diversion...since your ammo is Mannlicher clipped, it was for a Mannlicher
Rifle...I have a wonderfully built M88/90 Export model Rifle, converted to a Mannlicher style wood carbine, with dropper type sling loops, checkering, all done in England.
(the Front sight is Chilean M95 type and marked.).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks DocAv!Great informations!

Can you post some pics of your M88/90? it's very intresting.......


Warmest regards.
 
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