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Discussion Starter #1
first off i know nothing on how these shoots are run. how many yards do you shoot ? is it bench shooting, prone? how many rounds. and shots in a round ? i just got a Mosin M44 sounds like it might be fun.
 

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Well, the one at Camp Perry is shot at 200 yards and I did notice in the last posting of scores from this summer that at least one shooter out of about 800 or so used the M44 rifle. I can't recall what she scored.

I used an M39 Finn in that match and missed getting a bronze medal by 4 points. If you score within a certain percentile, you get a medal. Either bronze, silver or gold. If you don't score the minimum percentage needed for bronze, well, there's always the t-shirt!

It is a 30 round match for score. You get five sighting shots at the beginning of the match, but all other shots after that are for record. Correct me if I'm wrong and my memory is faulty.

So you make your sighting shots from the prone. You then do 10 shots for record slow fire. So you get a total of 15 minutes to make 5 sighters and 10 for record, prone slow fire. Then you do 10 shots prone rapid fire. You start standing, as in NRA high power, and get into prone on signal. Fire rapidly, reload and continue firing until you run out of ammunition or time.

Note: You will need at least one stripper clip to do this stage. When you load your first five while standing up waiting for the signal, you can load those singly in a hurry. To load your second batch of 5 shots rapidly, a stripper is needed.

The final 10 shots for score are shot standing, offhand, slowfire. 10 minutes for 10 shots.

A 300 is a perfect score and I believe nobody has yet accomplished this at Perry.

Now, that is how they run it at Perry. They don't do seated rapid fire (cross-legged, on the ground) because, well, many shooters are getting on in years.

Other clubs may just use a standard NRA High Power course of fire of standing slow, seated rapid, prone rapid and prone slow with 88 rounds. Hard to say.

The rifle shooters at a club I belong to in Middletown, OH do all of their shooting from a bench with their elbows on the table. Again, this is because of the age factor.
 

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Now, there are some hard truths you have to face about the M44 rifle, as I did with my M39.

It is not the "fastest" bolt-action repeater out there. Nobody will ever confuse it with the speed of an Enfield or even a Mauser. Compounding this problem is steel-cased ammunition that is copper washed or lacquered. That ammunition sticks in the chamber upon firing and makes manipulation of the bolt very difficult.

Oftentimes I have to take the rifle off my shoulder in order to hammer the bolt handle with the palm of my hand repeatedly. You will find that even with the generous 30 seconds you get in Vintage to make ten shots with one reload in rapid, the hard bolt throw with steel cased ammo makes this just about impossible.

Sooo, practice with the steel cased stuff all you want, but COMPETE with whatever brass-cased ammunition you can find. Or get some Lee dies, a cheap press, and some Winchester brass and load your own for competition. Brass surplus ammo is out there. Snatch it up when you find it and use it only for such special occassions!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
i just got my M44 a week ago. it's my first military that is all original. i would like to get a mauser or a K31 but thats down the road. money is very tight. so for the time being the M44 will do. i will go to a shoot and see how its done. then go from there. i only have 2 rifles now the M44 and a Ruger 10-22 carbine. thanks for the input.
 

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M44 purists will tell you that the rifle was meant to be fired with the bayonet extended out. That the sights and point of impact are regulated with the bayonet extended and that it will shoot differently (less accurately?) with the bayonet folded away to the side.

I've never tested an M44 I've owned to see the differences in group sizes with bayo in or out, so I can't say for certain if this is the truth.
 

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Not all Mosin actions are created equal.A Russian WW11 model 38 I had was about the worst/stiffest bolt action rifle I have ever owned,you felt as if you would need a length of 2x4 to get the bolt open sometimes,it would have been hopeless for any type of target match simply because of the difficulty of operating the thing after firing a cartridge.On the other hand ,my Polish 44 is about the best quality military bolt-action rifle I have ever fired,the bolt slides like greased glass in the receiver and it will function perfectly and effortlessly with any ammo,steel or brass, factory or handloads,they never stick in the chamber and always chamber easily.They are like night and day in quality and function.
 

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... Or get some Lee dies, a cheap press, and some Winchester brass and load your own for competition. Brass surplus ammo is out there. Snatch it up when you find it and use it only for such special occassions!
Handloads in Lapua brass have been berry berry good to me, Won a local CMP match with my M39 once, and often place in the top 3 out of 12 to 20 shooters. M44? Leave it at home and get yourself an M39. Oh, and some good quality stripper clips for the reloads on-the-clock.

DanM.
 

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Dan, I didn't want to emphasize any shortcomings in his equipment save the hard bolt manipulation often encountered with steel cased ammo. The M44 is what he has and he has stated that is what he can currently afford. I'd much rather he compete with that than not compete until he can get something else.

Sure, an M39 would be close to ideal. Nearly in the ballpark of the Swede Mauser and the Swiss K31, provided you find decent ammo.
 

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Fair enough. But if frustration at being able to score well with an M44 leads him to say to heck with this ...

You did sort of warn him about "hard truths" of the M44, though you didn't emphasize its (lack of) basic accuracy, or the fact that it's not likely to hit what you think you are pointing at ...

Nothing against the M44. It was my first Mosin, and its one I can't see parting with. Fun for blasting, and he'll probably have fun getting his feet wet in rifle competition with it.
 

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I spent much of a whole summer with surplus 54R and an M44 working on my offhand. A cheap way to do it. I'd equipped that one with a Mojo rear aperature, so it wasn't your ordinary M44.

Sure, the other hard truths are that it has a short sight radius and a front sight post that will give you about "minute of man" accuracy. But I could routinely ring a 16" gong at 200 yards with that old russian if I did my part.

Competing with a firearm is addictive to just about anybody I've known.
 

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M44 purists will tell you that the rifle was meant to be fired with the bayonet extended out. That the sights and point of impact are regulated with the bayonet extended and that it will shoot differently (less accurately?) with the bayonet folded away to the side.

I've never tested an M44 I've owned to see the differences in group sizes with bayo in or out, so I can't say for certain if this is the truth.

My Russian M44 shoots about 3" left of POA with the bayonet folded and about 3-1/2" right with the bayonet extended. Not much to choose from there.
 

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Fair enough. But if frustration at being able to score well with an M44 leads him to say to heck with this ...

You did sort of warn him about "hard truths" of the M44, though you didn't emphasize its (lack of) basic accuracy, or the fact that it's not likely to hit what you think you are pointing at ...

Nothing against the M44. It was my first Mosin, and its one I can't see parting with. Fun for blasting, and he'll probably have fun getting his feet wet in rifle competition with it.

My Russian M44 shoots as good (or better) than either of my M91/30s.
Not all M44s are equal in accuracy either, you just have to give it a fair chance.
My Romo M44 is a much different, and sadder, story!!!
 

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give it a shot

most places give alot of leeway to new shooters. I have even shot rattle battle with a nagant. The most panic you can fit into 50 seconds by the way. Most matches around southern wisconsin are 50 shot matches. The smaller fixed ranges let you go unlimited sighters and the ones with pits and moving through the yardage will give you two like the rules say. That is just what I see around here anyway. My advice to you is go and shoot as much as you can afford, with your m-44 and surplus ammo. Dont worry about the time limits just rember the basics of a good shot. It's better to place 7- 10's than to miss 10 times because your worried about the clock. The speed will come. When I started shooting matches I used a no1 mk3 Smle for the first year. Never won with it then and now 22 years later I still dont win with it! Ask questions, bend the ears of the old salts and watch what they do. The matches are good places to get leads used gear for sale. I will say if you shoot the m-44 make sure you wear a hooded sweatshirt to your first match. It will keep the brass of the other shooter off your neck, and soak up some of that recoil. good luck and good shooting.
 

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Don't know much about rifle compititions but would love to learn and get involved in some. Some Mosin actions are stiff. My M-38 is about the hardest to manipulate. My fist rifle was a Chinese M53 (M44 clone) and it has the slickest action, but I cleaned and polished the action to help loosen it up. I've shot it rapid fire and have had no problems working the bolt. Perhaps reworking the bolt, receiver walls and having a clean and solid barrel might help out also.
 

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that bolt is a problem

I have had the same problem when i try to use it in matches. On the 4th of July every year a local range has a "rattle battle" and you can bring anything. They will let you shoot as many time as you want within reason. Each year we do it first with the ar then some type of milsurp second. 2 years ago we used nagants (91/30's) got about 10 good shots off each round out to 600 yard. Fun time. My bolt sticks when i use the steel case stuff. I just slap it hard and go on to the next. In the prone it is not possible with mine to cycle the bolt while the rifle is on my shoulder, so I lower it every time. I have some video and a photo of the 300 sitting stage with the nagant somewhere I will try to find it.

 

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you've recieved some good information so far , But if your just getting started in competition shooting with milsurps or any rifle for that matter ,Dont worry about how the other guys are shooting and how they score Just worry about yourself Make it a goal that in your first match you shoot a 350 try to shoot a 355 the next one and so on and so on ! Practice your positions at home ,get comfortable in them ,you wont shoot well if your in pain or uncomfortable wether it be sitting or prone or OH for that matter try to get as steady and stable as possible. Make sure your NPOA is good ! SPEED IN THE RAPIDS! Yes it can be done in 60 and 70 seconds easily ,Speed will come in time with practice but practice to be smooooooth in your reload first again dont worry about the time you have left make best use of the time with as many GOOD called shots as you can if you only get 7 shots off Oh well so what as long as your 7 shots were where you wanted to hit and that is the 10 ring or close to it anyways, again smooth is the key the speed with come on its own with practice. as far as a M44 No not the best for comp but it will work if you can shoot 4 moa of a bench the rifle has enough accuracy to score respectably
that 10 ring isnt that small ,and even if you shoot all 9's thats still 450 which aint toooo shabby,Just remember your shooting a battle rifle not a target grade rifle. Dont get discouraged if your scores are not what you think they would be! Have fun and enjoy it, dont fret the small stuff like scores just try to better yourself for YOU
 

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I need to get back into matches myself. My goals were to better my last score and to not finish last. Like Thunderbutt, I don't have any target rifles. I took my H & R M165 "Leatherneck" .22 to the NRA silhouette match. The range master said most folks don't hit any their first time out, and with that thing, not to be disappointed if I didn't hit any. Most everybody else on the line had $500 rifles with $500 scopes. The strange part for me was most also had a spotting scope that the shooters themselves used between shots, (looking at the dirt berm). Some made 38 sight adjustments in the 40 round match. I knew I didn't know "dope" for the different ranges, so I didn't adjust my sight at all. The winning score was 20/40, a tie by the range master and his daughter. I tied for last with 6/40, and everybody was quite impressed.
The point is, make the best of what you have, and use your head for something other than a place to keep you hat. Always shoot at paper, so you can see what happened.
Shoot the postal matches on this forum, there are several that your M-44 will qualify for. They change monthly, more-less, and most allow the best 3 out of 5 targets.
Shoot a brick of ammo thru the 10-22 for every box of 20 thru the M-44. By spring you'll be pretty impressive.
If it ain't fun, you're doing it wrong.
 
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