Vet markings
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Austin, I am going to jump in here and say unless you have capture tag or paperwork with the same name, going to detract from the price for "Most" collectors. While there are some who collect such pieces, without paperwork, will not add anything to the price. Unless it is a less common series or rifle to begin with, I would not expect a premium for the piece. Nice piece of history though, Skid
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2,391 Posts
Such thing will likely enhance a so-so rifle or even an average one, but detract from a really nice one. It also depends on the size and style of the markings. It comes down to the individuals preferences, some dig it some don't
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2,323 Posts
Very true, however I like rifles that look like they've been used (but not abused). I'm considering buying a Spanish Fr-8 which is covered in carvings, Juan <3 Angelica and stuff liek that. I've got a Finn M39, a Chinese T-53, and a '43 Tula PU Sniper which I'm sure have seen action at one time or another. For some reason I'm just more attracted to them.
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One of my favorites, though no longer in my possesion, had a service number stamped on the bottom of the wood buttplate. Personalized and very unobtrusive. But as I said before I would attach no extra value to such a marking.
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486 Posts
I see this more on Japanese weapons than on German weapons. Maybe there were more guns "lost" in the Pacific theater so it was more necessary. I do know that picking up a pistol or rifle in Europe was supposed to be easier than the Pacific. Everyone I have spoke to or read about said that firearms were laying around everywhere in Europe during and after the war. There were also many arms depots captured with thousands of weapons in them, brand new. Even Kurt Vonnegut, the liberal writer who wrote a bunch of semi-pornographic weirdo books, states in Slaughterhouse Five that anyone who wanted a gun after the war could easily get one. Vonnegut was an Army Scout who got captured during the Battle of the Bulge and was put in a former underground slaughterhouse in Dresden and witnessed the horrific firebombing of that city. The book, which is a work of fiction, is rather strange, but the parts relating to the war are informative.
My recent purchase T-30 Jinsen square pommel, square wood scabbard has initials scratched in the scabbard. Just part of the history of these things.
My recent purchase T-30 Jinsen square pommel, square wood scabbard has initials scratched in the scabbard. Just part of the history of these things.
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6,249 Posts
Yes, anyone who writes about living on Planet Tralfamador in an alternate universe shouldn't be allowed near firearms.
C/
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333 Posts
Interesting topic. 3 T99's that I currently have are ID'd to some degree or other. Two are marked in one way or another whereas the 3rd is not marked but has the bringback paper.
I have one rifle, a 23rd series with all the goodies, with the sailors name tapped into the butt plate. Out of the way, not in your face so not a plus or a minus to me as far as my appreciation of the rifle or price goes. I hold out hope I can identify him at some future date.
I also have a rifle with the Americal Division and 132nd Infantry regiment insignia painted on the butt of the rifle. It appears to be a period piece of artwork and very well done so I bought it.
To me, it really depends on how well the added markings are done, where they are placed and if the person is identified. Kim
I have one rifle, a 23rd series with all the goodies, with the sailors name tapped into the butt plate. Out of the way, not in your face so not a plus or a minus to me as far as my appreciation of the rifle or price goes. I hold out hope I can identify him at some future date.
I also have a rifle with the Americal Division and 132nd Infantry regiment insignia painted on the butt of the rifle. It appears to be a period piece of artwork and very well done so I bought it.
To me, it really depends on how well the added markings are done, where they are placed and if the person is identified. Kim
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3,071 Posts
I agree with many that if the paper work accompanies the rifle or item that is marked it would add to the historical value of the item, but I’m not going to pay extra for it. However, I do like the ones with the battle/island name on them much more so than a name or unit insignia. Have seen a number of them in the great collection up north and some are works of art.
2007 looking forward to 2057
In 2007, provenance is a big deal with Civil War stuff. But, Civil War collectors know all too well about fake markings and fake provenance on all sorts of relics! The fakes are so bad that Civil War collector shows are like a commedy of bad jokes.
For the year 2057. If you have solid provenance on a WWI, WWII, Viet Nam, etc. rifle, sword, etc. I would strongly suggest that you write it up on a big tag, date it, sign it, and attach it to the item. A generation or two from now, collectors will be happy you did.
Best regards,
Greg
In 2007, provenance is a big deal with Civil War stuff. But, Civil War collectors know all too well about fake markings and fake provenance on all sorts of relics! The fakes are so bad that Civil War collector shows are like a commedy of bad jokes.
For the year 2057. If you have solid provenance on a WWI, WWII, Viet Nam, etc. rifle, sword, etc. I would strongly suggest that you write it up on a big tag, date it, sign it, and attach it to the item. A generation or two from now, collectors will be happy you did.
Best regards,
Greg
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333 Posts
Greg, Good advice.
Although I don't know the name of the GI who brought back the "Americal" rifle captioned in my post above, I did correspond with several Americal veterans. On the rifle is an obscure symbol for the 132nd Infantry and two of the old soldiers I corresponded with recognized and elaborated on the meaning of that particular symbol (arrow-star symbol). I sent one of the veterans one of those disposable cameras and he sent me a photograph taken by his wife of himself holding one of his bringback Japanese flags and on the flag are the same Americal/132nd infantry symbol as are on the rifle!
Now I have to find away to keep the correspondence, photo and rifle together for future generations!
Kim
Although I don't know the name of the GI who brought back the "Americal" rifle captioned in my post above, I did correspond with several Americal veterans. On the rifle is an obscure symbol for the 132nd Infantry and two of the old soldiers I corresponded with recognized and elaborated on the meaning of that particular symbol (arrow-star symbol). I sent one of the veterans one of those disposable cameras and he sent me a photograph taken by his wife of himself holding one of his bringback Japanese flags and on the flag are the same Americal/132nd infantry symbol as are on the rifle!
Now I have to find away to keep the correspondence, photo and rifle together for future generations!
Kim
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5,765 Posts
I have a sub-collection of 10-12 rifles with known history which range purchase from vets family, my Tarawa rifle came from the Marine's son, to rifles with metal plates with Marine globe and anchor and location, to carvings/stampings with name and location acquired in the stock, most of these were from Japan. One is a cut down 38 long rifle with M1 carbine front and rear sights. There's a name stamped in in the stock and "Bhmo" " Burma." My first thought was the guy mispelled Burma and restamped. With a little research I learned that Bhamo is at the end of the Ledio road and was taken by one of the Mars Task force composed of the remains of Merrill's Maruders and fresh troops and a Chinese army unit. Someone in the Task Force had the 38 modified. Have a 97 sniper from Biak, an army officer brought it back, apparently cut the foreend, gave it to a NC museum, museum gave it to another person, and I traded a dog tag and $100 for the rifle. It had a paper tag on the butt from when it was stored in an Army ordnance facility in the 50s. It was possible to trace the officer and he had given an interview with a NC University publication. Got the story from him. My Iwo rifle came from Ivan Prall who was on the island during the fighting and shipped four rifles home, he sporterized two and kept two original.
I pestered him for years for one of the rifles. Even said I'd pay his price and give him a rifle of "equal quality", he wanted the rifles for his grandkids. He finally agreed to sell, guess he realized the rifles meant nothing to the grandkids. He said for me to set the price, described the rifle, mismatched with deep wrench marks on the receiver. I had a figure in mind, but posted this Board asking what you guys thought would be a fair price for a rifle as described. The answer was $150, I gave him $350. Rifle turned out to be an early, long handguard Howa with grenade fragments in the stock. Grenade had messed up the bolt somehow. Wrench marks came from the barrel being removed on Iwo, ordnance guy heated barrel to remove it and they found a live round in the chamber. (How do you remove a barrel with bolt in place, I don't know.) Anyway Ivan picked up a bolt from another discarded rifle. I'd rather have this one than an "Arsenal new" rifle. Could bore you with several other stories. As far as collectable rifles, "To each his own."
I pestered him for years for one of the rifles. Even said I'd pay his price and give him a rifle of "equal quality", he wanted the rifles for his grandkids. He finally agreed to sell, guess he realized the rifles meant nothing to the grandkids. He said for me to set the price, described the rifle, mismatched with deep wrench marks on the receiver. I had a figure in mind, but posted this Board asking what you guys thought would be a fair price for a rifle as described. The answer was $150, I gave him $350. Rifle turned out to be an early, long handguard Howa with grenade fragments in the stock. Grenade had messed up the bolt somehow. Wrench marks came from the barrel being removed on Iwo, ordnance guy heated barrel to remove it and they found a live round in the chamber. (How do you remove a barrel with bolt in place, I don't know.) Anyway Ivan picked up a bolt from another discarded rifle. I'd rather have this one than an "Arsenal new" rifle. Could bore you with several other stories. As far as collectable rifles, "To each his own."
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5,765 Posts
Rifles with history
(This was to be part of another thread, don't know if it will be in twice, a new thread or ??I was disconnected from the Internet while typing.) I have a sub-collection of 10-12 rifles with known history which range purchase from vets family, my Tarawa rifle came from the Marine's son, to rifles with metal plates with Marine globe and anchor and location, to carvings/stampings with name and location acquired in the stock, most of these were from Japan. One is a cut down 38 long rifle with M1 carbine front and rear sights. There's a name stamped in in the stock and "Bhmo" " Burma." My first thought was the guy mispelled Burma and restamped. With a little research I learned that Bhamo is at the end of the Ledio road and was taken by one of the Mars Task force composed of the remains of Merrill's Maruders and fresh troops and a Chinese army unit. Someone in the Task Force had the 38 modified. Have a 97 sniper from Biak, an army officer brought it back, apparently cut the foreend, gave it to a NC museum, museum gave it to another person, and I traded a dog tag and $100 for the rifle. It had a paper tag on the butt from when it was stored in an Army ordnance facility in the 50s. It was possible to trace the officer and he had given an interview with a NC University publication. Got the story from him. My Iwo rifle came from Ivan Prall who was on the island during the fighting and shipped four rifles home, he sporterized two and kept two original.
I pestered him for years for one of the rifles. Even said I'd pay his price and give him a rifle of "equal quality", he wanted the rifles for his grandkids. He finally agreed to sell, guess he realized the rifles meant nothing to the grandkids. He said for me to set the price, described the rifle, mismatched with deep wrench marks on the receiver. I had a figure in mind, but posted this Board asking what you guys thought would be a fair price for a rifle as described. The answer was $150, I gave him $350. Rifle turned out to be an early, long handguard Howa with grenade fragments in the stock. Grenade had messed up the bolt somehow. Wrench marks came from the barrel being removed on Iwo, ordnance guy heated barrel to remove it and they found a live round in the chamber. (How do you remove a barrel with bolt in place, I don't know.) Anyway Ivan picked up a bolt from another discarded rifle. I'd rather have this one than an "Arsenal new" rifle. Could bore you with several other stories. As far as collectable rifles, "To each his own."
(This was to be part of another thread, don't know if it will be in twice, a new thread or ??I was disconnected from the Internet while typing.) I have a sub-collection of 10-12 rifles with known history which range purchase from vets family, my Tarawa rifle came from the Marine's son, to rifles with metal plates with Marine globe and anchor and location, to carvings/stampings with name and location acquired in the stock, most of these were from Japan. One is a cut down 38 long rifle with M1 carbine front and rear sights. There's a name stamped in in the stock and "Bhmo" " Burma." My first thought was the guy mispelled Burma and restamped. With a little research I learned that Bhamo is at the end of the Ledio road and was taken by one of the Mars Task force composed of the remains of Merrill's Maruders and fresh troops and a Chinese army unit. Someone in the Task Force had the 38 modified. Have a 97 sniper from Biak, an army officer brought it back, apparently cut the foreend, gave it to a NC museum, museum gave it to another person, and I traded a dog tag and $100 for the rifle. It had a paper tag on the butt from when it was stored in an Army ordnance facility in the 50s. It was possible to trace the officer and he had given an interview with a NC University publication. Got the story from him. My Iwo rifle came from Ivan Prall who was on the island during the fighting and shipped four rifles home, he sporterized two and kept two original.
I pestered him for years for one of the rifles. Even said I'd pay his price and give him a rifle of "equal quality", he wanted the rifles for his grandkids. He finally agreed to sell, guess he realized the rifles meant nothing to the grandkids. He said for me to set the price, described the rifle, mismatched with deep wrench marks on the receiver. I had a figure in mind, but posted this Board asking what you guys thought would be a fair price for a rifle as described. The answer was $150, I gave him $350. Rifle turned out to be an early, long handguard Howa with grenade fragments in the stock. Grenade had messed up the bolt somehow. Wrench marks came from the barrel being removed on Iwo, ordnance guy heated barrel to remove it and they found a live round in the chamber. (How do you remove a barrel with bolt in place, I don't know.) Anyway Ivan picked up a bolt from another discarded rifle. I'd rather have this one than an "Arsenal new" rifle. Could bore you with several other stories. As far as collectable rifles, "To each his own."
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