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I see that top of the line M96s are holding their value... and then some.
http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=8249926.0
http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=8249926.0
Very nice looking rifle.
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Some areas of the wood to metal show the metal higher than the wood. Also look at the numbers on the bolt handle. they look very shallow and it appear to have been very carefully ground. Very selective picture taking so you can't see the high metal around the wood of the stock. also the finger grooves in the stock are rounded. Maybe this happened in Sweden during a refit, but I'm a little suspect of this rifle.
Definitely a reworked gun. Very thoroughly reworked in every part and very well done, too (this is excellent gunsmith work, not Bubba, and neither a Swedish arsenal) - but no longer original condition, by no means.
I feel it's worth the money, actually. Just don't confuse it with an untouched original.
Alexander
I feel it's worth the money, actually. Just don't confuse it with an untouched original.
Alexander
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2,661 Posts
See those two compression dents in the fore stock? Those are very typical of pallet banded rifles as we've seen dozens upon dozens of them in the U.S. just like that in the same exact place. I can't see someone doing such an outstanding refinish on this rifle and leaving them in place. Makes no sense.
However-- I did and do have some feelings about this rifle from my first impression.
1- the gap between the handguard and stock. 2- the gap underneath the ejector box.
Both those gaps are telltale of stock sanding.
The rear sight ladder spring appears to have the original fire blue. Almost all military rebuilds will show this part matte blued in black Dulite.
I have a stock with this same dynamic grain stucture and coloring. It has a 1898 serial number but is a post-1903 stock. I believe stocks such as this were not used on standard rifles but were saved and used on special rifles. Usually we'll see a presentation plaque on the butttstock or it'll be a weapons officer's rifle with his name as the serial number. I think that may be the case here but there's no way of knowing without any other less subtle hints.
I can't recall seeing a brass disc screw?? Unplated steel and blued steel. Its possible but I can't recall seeing brass used??
The pictures just aren't as good as they could be. I don't see a good profile shot of the rear receiver tang or triggerguard to see if it stands above the wood line any. But that gap in the handguard is very telling.
JimmyC has good eyes. I missed that dang 3 on the bolt knob. You're right, it looks very carefully refinished.
Dutchman
However-- I did and do have some feelings about this rifle from my first impression.
1- the gap between the handguard and stock. 2- the gap underneath the ejector box.
Both those gaps are telltale of stock sanding.
The rear sight ladder spring appears to have the original fire blue. Almost all military rebuilds will show this part matte blued in black Dulite.
I have a stock with this same dynamic grain stucture and coloring. It has a 1898 serial number but is a post-1903 stock. I believe stocks such as this were not used on standard rifles but were saved and used on special rifles. Usually we'll see a presentation plaque on the butttstock or it'll be a weapons officer's rifle with his name as the serial number. I think that may be the case here but there's no way of knowing without any other less subtle hints.
I can't recall seeing a brass disc screw?? Unplated steel and blued steel. Its possible but I can't recall seeing brass used??
The pictures just aren't as good as they could be. I don't see a good profile shot of the rear receiver tang or triggerguard to see if it stands above the wood line any. But that gap in the handguard is very telling.
JimmyC has good eyes. I missed that dang 3 on the bolt knob. You're right, it looks very carefully refinished.
Dutchman
Agree! There are many other parts that should have matching numbers as well, but were never discussed or photographed. I believe the numbers on the bolt knob are most likely original, but probably had some rust pitting surrounding them that was removed with a file and then the area re-polished. I also think the guy got took. I picked up an all matching 1907 CG in all original (unmolested) mint condition that looks better than this one a couple of years ago for $250. Have to admit though, I was at the right place at the right time. But $855! WOW!
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Definatly sanded
Dutch is right about the sanding. If you look at the close up of the stock disk,you will notice the edges of the cutout are slightly rounded in. They should be sharp and crisp.A dead giveaway of hand sanding! (also,I've never seen a brass screw)
Dutch is right about the sanding. If you look at the close up of the stock disk,you will notice the edges of the cutout are slightly rounded in. They should be sharp and crisp.A dead giveaway of hand sanding! (also,I've never seen a brass screw)
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8,601 Posts
YES , a sanded stock !
The crisp stock cartouch tells me it came from the arsenal sanded . Whether is was done by the arsenal or a civilian that turned it in to the arsenal , is the question ?
Generally speaking the M-94's were not in civilian hands . I see many examples of M-94's with rounded finger grooves . Many have a weathered patina on the wood finish that tells me it was done long before coming into the USA . So , I think this was a common practice in the Swedish arsenals . Perhaps it was done by an apprentice stock maker , or perhaps the armorers or soldiers sanded them in the field . We will probably never know for sure .
You will also see these rounded finger grooves on M-94's & M-96's with the range decal on the buttstock . That would indicate the sanding occured before coming out of the arsenal . The stock file may have been the prefered method of finishing a stock , but many have been sanded in the military from the examples that I have seen . At least that is how I see it .
The crisp stock cartouch tells me it came from the arsenal sanded . Whether is was done by the arsenal or a civilian that turned it in to the arsenal , is the question ?
Generally speaking the M-94's were not in civilian hands . I see many examples of M-94's with rounded finger grooves . Many have a weathered patina on the wood finish that tells me it was done long before coming into the USA . So , I think this was a common practice in the Swedish arsenals . Perhaps it was done by an apprentice stock maker , or perhaps the armorers or soldiers sanded them in the field . We will probably never know for sure .
You will also see these rounded finger grooves on M-94's & M-96's with the range decal on the buttstock . That would indicate the sanding occured before coming out of the arsenal . The stock file may have been the prefered method of finishing a stock , but many have been sanded in the military from the examples that I have seen . At least that is how I see it .
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289 Posts
They never show the fire blued barrel band springs or the fire bluing on the bolt stop/ejector box either. I am with Dutchman, if it had been rearsenaled in Sweden the rear sight base spring would most likely be black. You gotta ask yourself this, if the other parts were fire blued, why did they not take pictures of them?
Nice American rebuild.......someone is gonna be mad when thay show their MINT rifle to a knowledgable collector of Swedish rifles.
Smokepole50
Nice American rebuild.......someone is gonna be mad when thay show their MINT rifle to a knowledgable collector of Swedish rifles.
Smokepole50
True indeed, an American rebuild. But why should someone be mad? It's very good work and a beautiful gun.
Not in original condition, but nicer in several respects. So what? It's an excellent custom job, and STRICTLY AS SUCH it is not at all too expensive (the labour is sure worth it; you will not be able to acquire a US commercial hunting rifle with such a finish even for the double price).
Carcano
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8,601 Posts
I do not see this rifle as an American rebuild . The crisp cartouch on the wrist of the stock is clearly an original Swedish arsenal stamp . It has not been sanded or refinished since leaving the arsenal . True it has been rebuilt , probably with a new barrel ( if it has the same cartouch ) .
As for the seller hiding selected parts of the rifle without photos , that can only be conjecture on your part . Rarely do you see auctions with a complete set of photos of every part , serial numbers & stock parts . One exception would be " Jack the Dog " , who has more photos than anyone auctioning guns .
By the way , I do not know the buyer or seller & take no sides in this discussion . I am only expressing my opinion . Everyone else can make their own judgement .
As for the seller hiding selected parts of the rifle without photos , that can only be conjecture on your part . Rarely do you see auctions with a complete set of photos of every part , serial numbers & stock parts . One exception would be " Jack the Dog " , who has more photos than anyone auctioning guns .
By the way , I do not know the buyer or seller & take no sides in this discussion . I am only expressing my opinion . Everyone else can make their own judgement .
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You are free to state your opinion regardless of what I say . To each his or her own opinion . Your or I may have a differant opinion if we had the rifle in question in our own hands to examine . There are still many unknowns not shown in the photos or description . Perhaps the buyer will share more info when he gets the rifle .
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2,661 Posts
One important thing we've all learned is that it takes some very detailed photos of specific areas to determine what's what of a rifle like this. There are bothersum aspects of this rifle but without holding onto it or seeing much better photos I'm afraid there are going to be questions we can't answer. This is exactly the reason we all have a problem answering "what's my rifle worth" questions.
I'm glad to see some of you have developed very discerning eyes.
Dutchman
I'm glad to see some of you have developed very discerning eyes.
Dutchman
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