[bph9]

Any idea of the worth of an original parade rifle, nickle plated, in very good condition with all the accesories i.e. bayonet, mono pod, cleaning rod, dust cover, anti-aircraft sights.

 

[Ronin48]

From your descripion it's a 99 and not a 30. My guess is it's not a "parade rifle," but one a GI had nickeled during the Occupation. For most collectors it would have little value, it's "ruined," but back in my collecting days I would have paid a couple of hundred for it to go along with my nickeled (?) Nambus and Japanese trench art. For a buyer you'll have to find another nut interested in strange critters.

 

[67L36Driver]

Just a thought.

Can it be "Un-Nickled" by an electrolytic process.

 

[seinen]

Can it be "Un-Nickled" by an electrolytic process.

Probably, but in the process you'd probably also remove any blueing that was originally present.

C/

 

[Sonoda_otaku]

Also depends if the stock as been sanded into an oblivion and shellaced to hell.

I haven't ever seen a nickel plated gun that hasn't been turned into a tooth pick.

 

[bph9]

In the book "miitary rifles of Japan" there is a picture of an original type 30 nickled parade rifle, so these guns did exist. I am assuming they also had nickled type 99 parade rifles as well just as the Americans also had nickled parade rifles such as the 1903 Springfield and M1 Garand.

Therefore what we are dealing here with is an extremely rare Japanese rifle. The gun is a vet bring back who recently passed away. His son has told me the gun was brought back exactly as it was found. Since original blued guns with all the accessories generally bring at least $300 here in Ohio I am guessing this gun should be worth at least double that because of its rarity.

Since I have not seen this gun up close I will have to further question the son to find out if its a type 30 or type 99 but whatever model it is, it is original for sure and very, very, rare.

 

[JCLTB]

I just looked through Military Rifles of Japan, by Honeycutt. I can't find the rifle you are referring to, which edition are you looking at and what page is the "nickel plated parade rifle" shown?

 

[03man]

I doubt very much it is original; no way to prove it either way.

Buy the rifle not the story, JMHO.

 

[JarrodM]

well its definitely NOT a type 30 and we can tell that from your description. ive never heard of, or encountered any authentic chrome plated rifles in my collecting experience. if they were done this way originally, that rifle sure is not rare! ive seen tons of nickle plated rifles and pistols and not a single one of them sold for anything close to what a normal type 99 would sell for.

 

[Vicasoto]

Hello bph9 :

You are correct that Fred Honeycutt has pictured starting with the 2nd Edition of his book Military Rifles of Japan page 174 of his section on training rifles. The 3 rifles pictured are identified thus : " From top to bottom : Captured Chinese copy of Model 1888 Commision Rifle modified to trainer; captured Chinese copy of Model 1898 Mauser modified to trainer; nickel plated Type 30 rifle for parade use. "
The fact that the rifle appears in the training section and not in the body of the text on Type 30 rifles implies that Fred did not consider this as official Japanese issue or intended for organized Imperial military usage.
Whether or not the plating was done pre or post war is the question, The Guards division whose duty was to protect Tokyo and the Emperor wore and used the same equipment as any other Army unit, only the emblem on their caps and helmets was different from the Army Star.
I personally do not hold any value to the theory of Japanese "Parade" arms, flashy nickled rifles and pistols seem an aberration with the Japanese character; it says look at me !, we are special, and that is not Japanese mentality specially in WW2.
Vicasoto

 

[Ike27]

Value of rifle is what someone wants to pay for it. The originality of it will never be proven as many bring homes were nickled.

Some pictures may help us identify it further as the features you list (pod, DC) are features of a type 99. Also the bore condition and if its complete.

I would not pay $600 for it, but at auction with some creative marketing you may find someone who thinks its a rare rifle.

 

[fredh]

The nickel plated Type 30 in MROJ has always puzzled me. I picked that one up years ago from an old timer (look who's talking!) who in turn said he picked it up about 1946. He said the rifle came back with the plating already on it. And the price was so cheap, it's a case of who cares. The kicker here is that the crest was ground, and that bothered me. The crest grinding was pretty neat, not reckless, and the plate appeared old. The ground crest is a negative as far as originality goes but not the final answer. You've got to present me with a lot of info to sway me one way or the other on stuff, so all I can say is the jury is out on that one. You pays your money and takes your chances.

 

[Ronin48]

Someone, Jerry Price maybe, had an article in Banzai, three or four years ago on a nickel plated Papa. The article included a copy of the paper work the owner had to complete to remove it from his base in Japan to the plating company. This was during the occupation. I have two plated 14s and two 94s. I "disremember" what I paid but not over $150 for any one. I'd bet 03man's last Arisaka the 99 was plated during in Japan during the occupation.

 

[Riceone]

Fred, was the grinding of the mum through the chrome plating or was the plating put on after it was ground? riceone

 

[03man]

We have all seen chrome plated souveniers; sometimes done in the old country or done stateside.

One of the most prevalent new businesses started by GI's on return was the 'plating' shop. 1000's of rifles and pistols were plated here, long enough ago to look vintage.

If one does not have considerable and irrefutable provenance, a chrome plated weapon is just a GI's idea of something good looking to him or different.

If someone has offered $600 for this rifle, sight unseen; I would hold out for $1000! Like Victor said on the duplicate post- there is one born every minute. When I buy something stupid or fake(read that paid too much), I operate on the bigger fool theory: 'Just wait, a bigger fool will come along and take it off my hands'.

On de-plating, that was an option at one time for sure- when there were dozens of small plating shops around, now it will likely cost more than the weapon is worth- unless you 'know' somebody.

JMHO, and this is one rare piece that I'm prepared to let go by; well heeled or not.

 

[bph9]

The rifle in question was taken in battle right off the battlefield. I would say that nickle or chrome plating would make a lot of sense when used in a tropical environment that the Japanese found themsleves fighting in.

The real question is how many were made. It may have been something that was tried and then abandoned due to cost or the extra time to produce.

This gun has the crest intact and it was not ground. All numbers match. It also has a bayonet but I have not yet been able to see if its serial number matches the gun yet.

The gun has the original sling, dust cover and cleaning rod.

Again since we have documented pictures that some type 30 rifles that were chromed then the existence of type 99 rifles that were nickled or chromed is not to be dismissed out of hand.

We also know that nations copy each other when it comes to weapons and their use. I have seen many of the worlds militaries using chromed weapons both in the past and in the present. To say the Japanese would not have done so would to be ignore history both past and present.

At the tail end of the war all weapons would have been scarce and there may indeed have been parade rifles pressed into service. Since this rifle turned up on the battlefield this was obviously the case unless the Japanse were fielding some guns that had been made up for tropical use but produced only in very small numbers.

 

[fredh]

Rice, the ground mum occurred before plating, hence, the reason for my concern. I sold off all my trainers probably 20 years ago except for a serial number 1, so it's not handy to photo and post.

 

[albacore]

The rifle in question was taken in battle right off the battlefield. I would say that nickle or chrome plating would make a lot of sense when used in a tropical environment that the Japanese found themsleves fighting in.

The real question is how many were made. It may have been something that was tried and then abandoned due to cost or the extra time to produce.

This gun has the crest intact and it was not ground. All numbers match. It also has a bayonet but I have not yet been able to see if its serial number matches the gun yet.

The gun has the original sling, dust cover and cleaning rod.

Again since we have documented pictures that some type 30 rifles that were chromed then the existence of type 99 rifles that were nickled or chromed is not to be dismissed out of hand.

We also know that nations copy each other when it comes to weapons and their use. I have seen many of the worlds militaries using chromed weapons both in the past and in the present. To say the Japanese would not have done so would to be ignore history both past and present.

At the tail end of the war all weapons would have been scarce and there may indeed have been parade rifles pressed into service. Since this rifle turned up on the battlefield this was obviously the case unless the Japanse were fielding some guns that had been made up for tropical use but produced only in very small numbers.

Where are these documented pictures? In Military Rifles of Japan? The author just spoke on the matter.

The bayonets were not matched to the rifles by serial number.

 

[albacore]

Rice, the ground mum occurred before plating, hence, the reason for my concern. I sold off all my trainers probably 20 years ago except for a serial number 1, so it's not handy to photo and post.

Ground before plating. To me that kills all speculation over the originality of these rifles.

 

[Sonoda_otaku]

I think he ignored the fact that the Author of the document he cited gave his opinion on the very EXACT rifle he was pointing to.