Unusual Metford

461 Views 17 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Lance, 3 d ago

Lance

Discussion Starter · 9 d ago

6

A new addition arrived this week and I thought I would share. Obviously as usual I spent too much, in my opinion, but again these do not show up often.

She is an MLM Mark I* with m/m bolt and rear sight but in overall very good shape with one of the best metford bore's I have seen. Sadly, no unit marks but it was a 1st class rifle that was downgraded to "DP" which was later canceled and upgraded to cadet use with an "unsafe barrel" (double R).

The unusual part is that it is an 1895 dated rifle with an early serial number without a letter suffix. The best guess is that the original rifle 5874 was sent in, possibly for an upgrade to an MLM Mark I*, and was found to be beyond salvage so a new rifle was put in its place using its serial number. Regardless it is the first 1895 MLM Mark I* I have come across.

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Nagloc68

· #2 · 9 d ago

Very nice Lance. Congratulations and thanks for the summary!

Reactions: 1

JB White

· #3 · 9 d ago

I’ll bet you had a three rivet bayonet and just had to have a nice rifle to put behind it

I can appreciate that. The story trail isn’t bad either.
Kudos to you on that one.

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Masonhaggerty3

· #4 · 9 d ago

Real head scratcher on that one eh? Shouldn't it be a Mark II if it's made 1895?

Lance

Discussion Starter · #5 · 9 d ago

In 1895 the MLM Mk II* was the newest pattern however older patterns were still available upon request. I have seen: 1903 MLM Mk I*, 1910 MLM Mk II, 1911 MLE I* and 1911 SMLE Mk I*.

If your "outfit" was using MLM Mk I* and you needed a spare it would be easier to request an old pattern rifle rather than refitting a complete "outfit" to the newer or newest pattern rifle.

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Alan L

· #6 · 9 d ago

Why does it have two sling swivels on its fore end?
Alan

smle addict

· #7 · 9 d ago

One is a piling swivel, the other a sling swivel. The slings attached at the front of the nose-cap and at the swivel just in front of the magazine.

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Lance

Discussion Starter · #8 · 9 d ago

smle addict said:
One is a piling swivel, the other a sling swivel. The slings attached at the front of the nose-cap and at the swivel just in front of the magazine. View attachment 4111022

A sharp eye will notice on the above 1895 example that someone at sometime mixed up the front band swivels and placed the stacking swivel behind the sling swivel. So if a sling was installed the stacking swivel would not be able to be used. To "correct" this would bugger up the nut so I left it as is.

Rufenig

· #9 · 9 d ago

Picture No. 4 has DP struck out (to hide it)
I don't think that's military practice.

148Infantry

· #10 · 9 d ago

Very good addition Lance. These are rarely seen and the money paid is quickly forgotten when a rare bird is in hand. These late production outliers are even more scarce than standard MLM I*s. I have an 1897 Enfield that could be your rifles clone. I paid top dollar in 2019 from Joe Salter. No regrets whatsoever. Yours is maybe the first I’ve seen of a post 1895+ dates example since. Our old beloved friend Simon aka Englishman_ca RIP gave me some really good collector insight on these rare beasts. I’ll forward you the conversation to your PM as you might find it interesting.
Also member Coggansfield has been keeping a running tally of these since the 1990s and it’s less than a dozen have surfaced at auction or collector forum I believe. Maybe you can add your serial number to his records if he hasn’t already discovered yours. Both fore mentioned members seem to believe these late production early patter rifles are indeed unit replacement specimens. Also could be barreled actions that were restocked into DPs later on.

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smle addict

· #11 · 9 d ago (Edited)

Rufenig said:
Picture No. 4 has DP struck out (to hide it)
I don't think that's military practice.

According the LE book, the funny looking "mustache" stamp is a, "cancellation overstamp of mark or stamping beneath."
While the DP is marked on the stock, the cancellation mark is directly over/on top of the DP. My MLM MKI* is marked in almost the exact same manner. Same back-to-back "R" as well. No other DP stamp anywhere on the rifle.

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DisasterDog

· #12 · 9 d ago

Rufenig said:
Picture No. 4 has DP struck out (to hide it)
I don't think that's military practice.

It’s struck out with the proper “propeller” cancellation marks, though the “back-to-back R” marking indicates an unsafe barrel generally associated with cadet drill-purpose use.

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HarryB

· #13 · 8 d ago (Edited)

Lance said:
A sharp eye will notice on the above 1895 example that someone at sometime mixed up the front band swivels and placed the stacking swivel behind the sling swivel. So if a sling was installed the stacking swivel would not be able to be used. To "correct" this would bugger up the nut so I left it as is.

Lance, It's more likely someone has incorrectly fitted the front band back to front because the screw is normally inserted from the left hand side. Could be corrected by driving out the retaining pin and reversing the band and swivels together without the need to remove the stop nut from the screw.

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BrianR

· #14 · 8 d ago

Lance, that is a very nice rifle to now own. Thanks for the pictures.

Melanie_Daniels

· #15 · 4 d ago (Edited)

Lance said:
The unusual part is that it is an 1895 dated rifle with an early serial number without a letter suffix. The best guess is that the original rifle 5874 was sent in, possibly for an upgrade to an MLM Mark I*, and was found to be beyond salvage so a new rifle was put in its place using its serial number. Regardless it is the first 1895 MLM Mark I* I have come across.

A few days ago I saw in a private collection a similar rifle dated 1899 - the guy bougth it in a auction an told me that a second 1899 was sold by Bonhams.

And Joe Salter sold a 1897 dated:

www.gunsinternational.com

British Lee-Metford Mk. I Rifle

British Lee-Metford Mk. I Rifle for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

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Lance

Discussion Starter · #16 · 4 d ago

Thanks for the link, Joe's rifle is an excellent comparison.

BrianR

· #17 · 3 d ago

I see that the Lee Metford Mark I* has been reposted on usedguns 534011 – Used Guns
I hope that your too much was not in this much category.

Lance

Discussion Starter · #18 · 3 d ago

Thanks for the link, fortunately it is not anywhere the price I paid for mine. I may be addicted but I have not lost it completely, yet!

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