DMala
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:41:46 AM
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This may be of limited interest, but I wanted to let everyone know that on Gunbroker there is currently for auction a Vetterli 70/87/16, which has the stock plugged where in the late 1880s a Krnka-type ammo feeding device was installed, as parte of experimental evaluations of the Regio Esercito, which never further developed the device. The existing modified stocks were either left with the metal plates where the device was screwed in (like the one I have), or the holes were plugged (like in this case).
This experimentation was part of the general search for incresing the fire power of the single-shot Vetterlis, which shortly afterwards led to the adoption of the Vitali system, and maybe of the 70/87 ones too, since this is dated 1889 (unless a recycled stock was used at some time).
I am not sure if it is possible to post the link of an active auction, so for now I would just suggest those interested to search Gunbroker.com for item 22694134 . I have no personal interest/advantage in the auction's outcome.
War is Peace
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 03:13:31 AM
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While on the subject of modified Vetterli rifles, please take a look at the following photos:
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/war is peace/200491322543_Vetterli Mag Housing.jpg
Download Attachment:
179.61 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/war is peace/200491322625_M70-87-15 Vetterli.jpg
Download Attachment:
102.01 KB
About 2 years ago I posted these photos here on Tuco's and I posed the question whether this rifle was simply (and crudely) modified by someone who wanted to mount the rifle to his wall with a couple of screws or whether this piece could have been affixed to a piece of artillery and used as a "spotting" rifle? In similar fashion, the Japanese attached Type 38 Arisaka rifles to their large bore "guns" by way of a bolt which passed through a threaded nut embedded into the buttstock.
The buttstock has the following cartouche:
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/war is peace/200491331531_Vett Cartouche.jpg
Download Attachment:
141.32 KB
Portions of the script are not legible, and I cannot speak or read Italian, but I believe that the cartouche denotes useage by an artillery unit. Yes? No? Your thoughts?
What are your thoughts about my punctured Vetterli? I have a hard time understanding why someone would drill holes through a rifle in order to mount it to the wall, but, unfortunately, that's the most likely explanation. The piece in question was not modified or abused in any other way and it otherwise remains in very good original condition. Complete with the proper cleaning rod, it cost less than $50.
DMala
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 1:04:13 PM
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Dear War is Peace, the holes in the stock of your piece seem different from the one I was referring to, since they appear to be circular, instead of oval. Do I also see correctly that there is only one hole near the magazine? In the piece with the (alleged) Krnka feeder attachments there is two. Yours also has a hole by the forend. So, I do not know what were they made for. I tend to think that they may be more likely to be related to some experimental tests done during the many years of service of these Vetterlis. I never heard of them being used as spotters on artillery pieces, but maybe experimentally at some point this may have been done, who knows.
DMala
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 1:09:23 PM
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Ah! I forgot to comment on the Officina Costruzioni d'Artiglieria - Roma 1918 stamp. (Artillery Contruction Workshop). This is a stamp that I have seen in basically every 70/87/16. It is unclear to me if this was made when the 6.5mm conversion was made, or if it denotes that in 1917-18 all Vetterlis to be converted undewent an inspection in Rome, but the conversion was acually done at a later stage. The latter hypothesis would be supported by the fact that some 6.5mm Vetterlis have such 1917-18 stock stamp, but a later conversion date stamped sideways to the construction date on the barrel flat.
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:41:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This may be of limited interest, but I wanted to let everyone know that on Gunbroker there is currently for auction a Vetterli 70/87/16, which has the stock plugged where in the late 1880s a Krnka-type ammo feeding device was installed, as parte of experimental evaluations of the Regio Esercito, which never further developed the device. The existing modified stocks were either left with the metal plates where the device was screwed in (like the one I have), or the holes were plugged (like in this case).
This experimentation was part of the general search for incresing the fire power of the single-shot Vetterlis, which shortly afterwards led to the adoption of the Vitali system, and maybe of the 70/87 ones too, since this is dated 1889 (unless a recycled stock was used at some time).
I am not sure if it is possible to post the link of an active auction, so for now I would just suggest those interested to search Gunbroker.com for item 22694134 . I have no personal interest/advantage in the auction's outcome.
War is Peace
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 03:13:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While on the subject of modified Vetterli rifles, please take a look at the following photos:
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/war is peace/200491322543_Vetterli Mag Housing.jpg
Download Attachment:
179.61 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/war is peace/200491322625_M70-87-15 Vetterli.jpg
Download Attachment:
102.01 KB
About 2 years ago I posted these photos here on Tuco's and I posed the question whether this rifle was simply (and crudely) modified by someone who wanted to mount the rifle to his wall with a couple of screws or whether this piece could have been affixed to a piece of artillery and used as a "spotting" rifle? In similar fashion, the Japanese attached Type 38 Arisaka rifles to their large bore "guns" by way of a bolt which passed through a threaded nut embedded into the buttstock.
The buttstock has the following cartouche:
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/war is peace/200491331531_Vett Cartouche.jpg
Download Attachment:
141.32 KB
Portions of the script are not legible, and I cannot speak or read Italian, but I believe that the cartouche denotes useage by an artillery unit. Yes? No? Your thoughts?
What are your thoughts about my punctured Vetterli? I have a hard time understanding why someone would drill holes through a rifle in order to mount it to the wall, but, unfortunately, that's the most likely explanation. The piece in question was not modified or abused in any other way and it otherwise remains in very good original condition. Complete with the proper cleaning rod, it cost less than $50.
DMala
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 1:04:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear War is Peace, the holes in the stock of your piece seem different from the one I was referring to, since they appear to be circular, instead of oval. Do I also see correctly that there is only one hole near the magazine? In the piece with the (alleged) Krnka feeder attachments there is two. Yours also has a hole by the forend. So, I do not know what were they made for. I tend to think that they may be more likely to be related to some experimental tests done during the many years of service of these Vetterlis. I never heard of them being used as spotters on artillery pieces, but maybe experimentally at some point this may have been done, who knows.
DMala
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 1:09:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah! I forgot to comment on the Officina Costruzioni d'Artiglieria - Roma 1918 stamp. (Artillery Contruction Workshop). This is a stamp that I have seen in basically every 70/87/16. It is unclear to me if this was made when the 6.5mm conversion was made, or if it denotes that in 1917-18 all Vetterlis to be converted undewent an inspection in Rome, but the conversion was acually done at a later stage. The latter hypothesis would be supported by the fact that some 6.5mm Vetterlis have such 1917-18 stock stamp, but a later conversion date stamped sideways to the construction date on the barrel flat.
