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HM Government is graciously extending the "right" to defend oneself and one's family in the home from intruders.

This is a step in the right direction, even if the "right" is contained in a proposed LAW, and is thus subject to change by the ruling party on a whim. Given the almost total firearms ban in the home, and recent movement to ban chef's knives, it still remains uncertain what if any weapons could be used by a householder in peril.

Read more here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jun/06/householders-rights-laws-intruders-burglars
 

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HM Government is graciously extending the "right" to defend oneself and one's family in the home from intruders.

This is a step in the right direction, even if the "right" is contained in a proposed LAW, and is thus subject to change by the ruling party on a whim. Given the almost total firearms ban in the home, and recent movement to ban chef's knives, it still remains uncertain what if any weapons could be used by a householder in peril.

Read more here:http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jun/06/householders-rights-laws-intruders-burglars
There won't be any baseball tournament in the next Summer Olympics. Most Britons don't play the colonies' game and don't need to own a bat. Imagine telling the Scotland Yard detectives, about a Louisville Slugger; when they come to investigate a burlary and see a dead criminal with a crushed skull.
 

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Baseball comes from thier Rounders, right? Talk about a thumper!

Anyway, that article can't be right. A Briton here was just explaining that every man in the UK is a king in his castle... I've explained they are not! Note the tone of the article even questions the concept of self defense and the state doesn't trust its subjects. Self defense MAY become a privelage but will never be a right in the UK. And they are toying with the idea that there could be a good samaritan... Her Majesty may have good reason to distrust the commoners (go to The London Mosque or into High Street in a working-class city on a summer night -- insanity!), but still, what the heck, let's take a chance and defend good people while we, and all good men, fight evil...

Alden
 

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Many bureaucrats in Canada have been trained in the Mother country's ways. When I was travelling through Canada to Alaska a few years ago I was inquiring about carrying a rifle or shotgun with me for protection. One gentleman at Immigration told me, "Never say that the weapon will be for self defence. That is what the RCMP is for. Tell them you are going to a shooting tornament." That's exactly what I did.

Ray
 

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This is a step in the right direction, even if the "right" is contained in a proposed LAW, and is thus subject to change by the ruling party on a whim. Given the almost total firearms ban in the home, and recent movement to ban chef's knives, it still remains uncertain what if any weapons could be used by a householder in peril.
I believe there's a Brit court ruling that using a 2x4 is "unreasonable!

Also the British have no rights except those granted by her majesty (really Parliament). In the USA the Supreme Court has held that most of the Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment, predate the Constitution and are only protected by it, not granted by it.
 

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phuggem indeed. better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.
 

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There won't be any baseball tournament in the next Summer Olympics. Most Britons don't play the colonies' game and don't need to own a bat. Imagine telling the Scotland Yard detectives, about a Louisville Slugger; when they come to investigate a burlary and see a dead criminal with a crushed skull.
In defense of our English brothers a cricket bat (i hope bat is the correct word) would or should do as well.
 

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The key part of this article is here:

Reed said the intention to change the law might be populist, but was unnecessary. "The law has been adequate for 40-odd years about reasonable force. Maybe we should just review prosecution policy before we start changing the law. Maybe what's changed is that the Crown Prosecution Service are far keener to prosecute people in circumstances where a few years ago we would have accepted that they were defending themselves," he said.
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) is the body that decides whether a case involving a substantial or serious injury would go ahead against a homeowner. The police spokesman, Mr Reed, makes a good point that it appears the CPS have been rather keen on these cases of late. The question is why. Are the Home Office pressing buttons behind the scenes, are the police in certain jurisdictions whispering about losing control of Joe Public unless steps are taken? Who knows.

For sure there is a very vocal minority in the UK that seem to believe that physical violence against an offender is the last resort AFTER the offender has got in the first strike. I would bet it is tough to defend yourself with a large kitchen knife in your chest. Dealing effectively with an armed intruder will always lead to questions as to whether you went too far. Rendering them unconscious with broken bones is viewed fairly dimly by many prosecuters and, strangely, many UK juries. Apparently the idea that you prevent the assailant regaining his/her weapon never occurs to them. Also, the question that is ALWAYS brought up in court is "were you defending yourself or your property". Choose wisely when answering, even in the US.
 

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The appropriate use of force in the context of this thread I think is presumed to be a given and in defense of life and limb, not really personal property. But what's with the crushing skulls stuff? Ouch!

I would summarize this by saying that in the US there is supposed to be the presumption of innocence of the victim as well as the benefit of the doubt. In the UK a defender is probably going to be presumed guilty. Heck, in the US there is a Louisville Slugger Museum (across the street from the US wing of the Royal Armouries by the way) -- it's just different.

Alden
 

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I will assume that anybody who manages to get into MY house here in yUK, with its secure doors and windows, alarms and CCTV, armed with anything more than his bare hands, is intent on doing harm to me and my family. I'll take appropriate action to minimise that intention with the least danger to me and mine.

It will inevitably involve a considerable amount of pain for the intruder - a price I am willing for him to pay for his unasked-for intrusion into our lives.

I won't be able to shoot him, although, in most of the USA this would be the legally-permitted end to the scenario.

But I promise that I'll use anything I can lay my hands on to defend my family.

And Alden, the criminal justice system over here demands that guilt be proven, not innocence.

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

PS - even his empty hands are a threat, AFAIAC
 

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Um, yeah, and the police will call the national number and you'll get a phone call and maybe a visit by the next criminal solicitor (a guy with a law degree) in the queue who will tell you to go to jail as the Magistrate, not a judge and jury, wants. Maybe it'll go to Crown Court and you'll be represented by an actual lawyer who's taken a bar exam and you will be ruined there by guys in white wigs. Don't tell me. You talk big, but, most'd never act in the UK -- their life's over either way and might as well take their chances throwing themselves at the mercy of the criminal than the state there. That's what subjects tend to do, and for a reason: it is what the state wanted and has been breeding.
Alden
 

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Dear Mr Alden - it's gratifying to read such an unbiased, thoughtful and informed post as yours.

It's even more graifying to let you and other like-minded Brit-haters know that apart from a few words, such 'a' and 'the', the rest of it is sheer unmitigated crap.

Calling people that you have never met cowards is not in the remit of this forum.

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund
 

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tacfoley2, we in the former colonies are a bit rough about the edges. We are used to Alden's rants. Our heavy hitter, Mauserboy, has been suspended for a bit, otherwise you would have had to deal with his line of guff. I hope you have put up a few pints of Guiness Stout in your self defense kit.
 

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and yet, there was a time in England when the law REQUIRED you to have weapons in your house. AND you were EXPECTED to go to the aid of a neighbor who was being robbed and help him either capture or KILL the criminal.

Now some folks go on about the Magna Carta being the basis of common law, but it had nothing to do with the ordinary folks, it was to protect the "barons" from King Johns taking over their estates and their fortunes.

Just for fun, Baseball must be catching on in the U.K. since American baseball bats seem to be quite popular with lots of yobbos.

Now one would think that allowing home owners to defend themselves just might become more popular if MP's and Crown Court judges and soliciters were to experience a few home invasions.
 

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I think a louisville slugger over a cricket bat. more weight and less wind resistance unless of course you turn the cricket bat sideways. Some descriptive terms in true kings english tend to make more sense. take "royal pain in the a$$" for instance. Sounds like you guys just need to put a really good scare into your government. Pay close attention in November and we will show you how to do it. Good luck to you.
 

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Tac;
I won't explain why it is so funny you attacking me personally, and as an Anglophobe no less. OK, so you have opinions. Betting you have opposable thumbs and can't own a flick-knife too.

I have insight. And you resent it and take your situation out on me. I never said anything about being cowards -- calling Dr. Freud! All you've done is say I'm not correct. But you have no experience and can't argue with any of my details. That's the way the system works. Don't like it? Emigrate. And forget watching the US in November -- I forbid it, you ain't gonna change anything, and you're too busy with bread and circuses anyway. That reminds me, footie's on -- gotta hang my St. George's and get my carefully measured, alcohol content posted, lager in a plastic pint at the working-man's club!

Vote King Charles!

Alden
 
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