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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A little horse trading and I ended up with this.
Brown Wood Wood stain Hardwood Plank


Faz FTR 43 with a 5/43 dated beech forend.
It’s still partially cosmo’d having only had a wipe down. Not a cleaning. SOG hang tag still on the trigger guard, which I carefully removed and set aside.

Walnut butt and grooved handguard set. British MAZAK buttplate. Savage bolt and magazine.
Wear patterns on the lugs are even but will be double checked after degreasing.
Bore still has crap in it but looks promising.

Passed on a 0.074 Aussie HS gauge but need to check again once cleaned.

Trade bait values were hovering shy of $400, so I’m fine monetarily.
Didn’t really want it but it reminded me of 20+ years ago. Grease, dirt, solvent, oiling…memories!

Motor vehicle Wood Bumper Gas Automotive exterior

Brown Wood Rectangle Material property Flooring

Food Wood Fish Cuisine Bicycle saddle
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This is going to take a lot of work. A project that means a lot of patience just to get it apart.
Ran the initial patch & brush treatment down the bore to get a better look. You won’t be hearing Pristine bore!!! coming from me.
Not being called trashed just yet though.
Old grease is petrified near solid in many places. Things are “glued” together for the most part. It’s going to be a while before it comes apart to even begin to start cleaning in earnest.
A little Hoppes revealing the A suffix to the serial number. Starting to notice subtle things leading me to believe Faz midwar FTR’s weren’t quite up to the usual specs? Haven’t seen many to form a solid opinion in that regard.
Even asked myself if SOG may have been first to get the Ethiopian rifles.
Wondering if that old one eyed, three legged, swaybacked ice horse might have been cheaper to keep when it comes to oats and sugar cubes vs cleaning supplies?
Then again it’s probably just a lack of newbie enthusiasm?

Don’t expect a range report anytime soon.
Previous owner called to tell me he had a bunch of 303 I can have. That’s a plus. Hmmm…
Might it be a bunch of green POF fused together in deteriorated boxes???
OK I’ll take it! :ROFLMAO: :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
a few minutes with some 80 grit and all the crap will come off,
💩 💩 💩 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Tempting!

Inventory shows I have over a quart of Kroil and 4 cans of brake parts cleaner.
WD40
PB Blaster
4 bottles of Hoppes
Breakfree
A full box of toothpicks
Nearly 25# each of both aluminum oxide and walnut blasting media.
About a gallon of mineral spirits and some denatured alcohol.
Half gallon of phosphoric acid

And I found the oven cleaner in the kitchen. I should be good for a couple weeks before going to 80 grit and propane torch.

Stick around. Next month I might be asking for donations!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
For a moment I thought you had lost sense JB and succumbed to RTI….but probably not! ..nice catch. Like to see them ’raw and un cooked’….I know you will make it right.
Buy from RTI?? Not me. Although I may buy one second hand if things check out as with this one.
I had the opportunity to give it a preliminary inspection to at least be able to determine whether or not I might be able to work with it.
No $500+ crap shoots for me. I don’t get that excited anymore.
It’s ugly as sin but at least it is safe and functional.
My only concern aside from aesthetics is the barrel at the moment. So long as it can shoot around 3 MOA without keyholing, I’ll call it a successful deal.
Overall it is an example of a hard working war horse.
I did notice an overall lack of manufacturers marks/codes on most parts. Maybe I’ll find some as I go along.
The magazine is devoid of distinguishing marks as well. I called it Savage only due to the 60C prefix serial number stamped on the bottom. That has been painted and looks out of place. Definitely a replacement part later in life. Pretty sure I have a weathered unnumbered replacement hiding around here somewhere. One I set aside for exactly this reason.

RTI….? This strikes me as having been one among the lower grade SOG rifles we used to get in the $89 range (without the handpick option).
I just had to give up a little more for it this time around. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
JB,

Not sixty years ago but 52 years ago I was pawing thru racks of new mint unfired No.4 Longbranch rifles in long racks at Sarco, all selling for 79 dollars out the door and one did go out the door with me. Of course all matching all correct glorious rifles and 60 years ago ordering a mint condition No.5 from P&S Sales, Tulsa Okla for 32 dollars shipped.

Buying then, the concept of buying a "project " Enfield was not even on the radar.

However I get the concept of saving an Enfield, and it was a lot easier when Springfield Sporters existed but today... well, I wish you luck and don't dwell on costs !
When I saw even wear in both lugs and it passed the HS check with flying colors on a size 0 bolt head, it got my attention.
Now that I have finally worked it apart I see the draws are solid and ‘squared’ up evenly. Only an impression mark from tight contact. I see no structural damage whatsoever. The back end of the fore isn’t cracked or splintered at all.
All the ugly is on the outside.
Keeping my fingers crossed the barrel impresses me as much upon firing.
This thing will clean up….and it will still be ugly. Ugly but respectable I’m OK with.
Hoping it finds a home in between a couple of other warhorse rifles of mine.
If she doesn’t shoot worth a hoot, it’ll be going down the road to an RTI customer with deep pockets! :ROFLMAO:

If it wasn’t for the cosmoline caked action under the wood, I would wonder if I was the first to have it apart since its’43 overhaul.
At least I know for certain Bubba didn’t beat me to it. And anything Bubba can do, I can do “better”! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A before and after pic of what a toothbrush and mineral spirits can do.
Brown Wood Amber Wall Rectangle

Motor vehicle Wood Bumper Gas Automotive exterior


No need to reach for oven cleaner and paint stripper. The scratches and dings will remain as honest wear and tear.
The temptation is there to make things better. I know the feelings of remorse. So I’m forcing myself to stop before going too far.

Akin to waking with a hangover and finding a werewolf in the kitchen making breakfast
WTF DID I DO??
Too late….
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Whewwww...for a second I thought you would terrorize us with a bathroom mirror selfie!
I’m not that cruel. Cruel…but not that much.

Did some spot cleaning on the metal bits for some checking. Here are the wear patterns on the lugs which caught my eye.
Mind you it was still dirty the first time I looked.
Brown Wood Wood stain Hardwood Flooring

Musical instrument Wood Bicycle part Musical instrument accessory Jewellery


I did the “ink test”. Results are promising IMO. While not as much contact as shown through use, it does show contact in the same areas. The smaller lug appears to be taking the brunt of it but the larger lug shows decent contact over the same areas. I’m not messing with it.

The FP protrusion comes in at about .042 on average over several checks in different positions. It will remain as-is too.

Initial inspection showed it passing HS at ,074. Today it passed on .067.
Closed on .064.

Quick pic of the draw area. Not ready for dry fitting yet but looks good enough that I have no real worries. Not today anyway.
Brown Water Wood Tints and shades Metal
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Random thoughts:

With all the concerns over mismatched bolts, what would you do?

Leave it alone for the next guy to figure out it fits?

Strike out the Savage serial number?

File it away and leave it blank?

Renumber it showing it fits?

No intent do do anything as I’ve never “matched” a part in my life. But I might be talked into doing ‘something’ if the general consensus says I probably should.

Even during a rushed wartime FTR using hurriedly linished & refinished used parts, I cannot conceive Faz allowing a critical component to go out the door that way. (???)
I do have a feeling those reconditioned parts may be responsible for the A suffix serial number.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Leave it as is would be my preference, my favourite Maltby has a mismatched bolt, would have preferred matching of course but it is what it is.
That’s the direction I was leaning. Maybe a single chisel strike across the center portion of the number…hey…
I know why you said leave it be. If you agreed to a strike, you know I’d talk you into holding it very steady while I whacked it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I’m tilting the way & go with the scrub & matching reS/N route.........it’s a mismatch anyway & from where? 🤔
If’n ya want to mismatch it again ya can always buy another bolt.🤷‍♂️
Cheer’s & good luck 👍
Now you’re talking “force match” and those are bad words around here.
Then to top it off, you condone a “forced mismatch” too??

^^^^ An Aussie in the American outback. Smuggles in domestic beer on horseback then shoots cows…
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Linseed is drying and the metal is degreased. Almost ready for reassembly.
A few questions since it’s quicker here than getting oily fingerprints off my books and notes.

1: When did Century begin import markings of “GEORGIA VT” instead of St Albans VT”

2: This weakly struck marking on the Nocks Form resembles an encircled D. (a very slight impression of a radiused stamp above the D but not visible in the pic)
To me it means ‘draw lapped barrel’ but I have only seen it on No1’s not No4’s.
What is it and why?
Glass bottle Alcoholic beverage Fluid Wine Cylinder


Cannot recall the particulars of the differences in the receiver milling.
Safe to assume this was a Faz prior to the ‘43 FTR?

Thanks

Pics would help….
3982486

3982487

3982484
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
You may have quite a rare (unique) faz rifle that was manufactured using an alternative, lower cost, quicker production method.

Being a Fazakerly marking invariably meant that it was rarely "well-struck" (like all their other markings)

It was discussed in some depth on the old Jouster forum in 2008 when Peter Laidler explained what a No4 with a "D-in-a-circle" meant :



Posted By: Peter Laidler
Date: Mon 11 Feb 2008 1:49 pm

The mystery of the Circled ‘D’

First, a bit of a history lesson. The actual manufacture of the No1 and No4 barrels is well documented. In short, it was manufactured as you see and one of the last but crucially important operations was to machine the indexed thread. This is important because if the indexed thread is not exact, then it’ll be impossible to align the knox form and subsequently, the sights and extractor way. This was the cause of many thousands of barrels being rejected. There was nothing that could be done economically to save an incorrectly indexed threaded barrel and an answer was urgently sought. At first, it was thought that a new chamber end could be shrunk on, similar to that of the already obsolete tube type Mk2 barrel. But if that was obsolete, then why try the same trick again?

It was decided that the barrels would be partially turned and threaded in one hit regardless of where the thread aligned but instead of cutting the foresight and bayonet columns, they’d be left as two complete rings around the barrel. The same applied to the knox form, the breeching-up flat at the reinforce. Now you have a complete barrel. Bored, rifled, chambered and machined (almost) to the exact contour of the finished article. What happened then was the threaded end was put into a milling machine headstock and automatically positioned into its correct 18 degree underturn position. This WILL automatically mean that the thread is indexed to any subsequent operations. Then another two sets of cutters would simply mill away the surplus material leaving two perfect sets of lugs for the foresight block band and the bayonet. Another cammed cutter would swiftly come over and scallop the rear of the longer bayonet locking cam segment

At the same time, another horizontal rotary milling cutter would slice across the knox form, leaving the flat. A space in the milling machine headstock allowed a cutter to slice away the extractor groove. Simple isn’t it? Further to this, it is said that the extractor way is narrower for a reason that I cannot quite understand ….., on the basis that it’s either aligned … or it’s not!

From this, you can see that the non essentials (….well, they’re all essential of course but not to ultimate alignment …..) were done but the very last operation was the critical one of aligning the foresight block band and bayonet lugs, knox form and extractor way with the existing breeching up thread THAT WAS ALREADY INDEXED IN THE MILLING HEAD, just as it will later be, in the body of the rifle. In, hand tight, tweak it to 18 degrees underturn and tighten with the cramp. This applied to all barrels, including the No5 and No8 too of course that were indexed

This was a major departure from the Enfield and Ministry of Supply specification and as such these barrels, manufactured using this method were marked with a distinct letter D, readily identifiable, on the knox form.

This information has been passed to me by a former Army liaison AIA. The initial D does not mean anything in itself except that the barrel was manufactured using a different method. Incidentally, this was a faster method of barrel production too. There, has that answered the question? I did ask about the No5 barrel with the scalloped reinforce but that was before the AIA’s time as an inspector. However, this would be a similar operation to the extractor way, although not an important one

As a matter of interest, this was a Fazakerley method of manufacture only and SHOULD indicate a Fazakerley barrel.
Is there a known timeframe when these “alternative” rifles were made?
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
She’s ready to join her stablemates.
Last rubbing with linseed oil, and a new-to-her unnumbered magazine.
Air gun Trigger Wood Shotgun Hardwood

Wood Wood stain Hardwood Varnish Flooring


I thought this a nice touch:
Rectangle Material property Strap Jewellery Electronic device


Here are her old warhorse neighbors. Getting to know one another while trying on grandpa’s old bayonets:

Trigger Wood Air gun Shotgun Gun barrel

Wood Air gun Shotgun Hardwood Gun accessory


1917 peddled scheme rifle (matching). WW1
The old ‘43 FTR Faz all snuggled in. WW2
International Harvester M1. Korea
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 · (Edited)
Thinking that would prolly work wonders on any.........forced match part! 🤔🤭🤷‍♂️
Gasp!
You said the f-m word.
Foul words and offensive language is not allowed around here.

So bugger off you roo-faced bass turd.

:giggle::coffee: <- there is no middle digit emoji. So have a cup of coffee instead. Enjoy!
I made it myself.:poop::coffee::poop: Just for you.
 
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