Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently looked into purchasing a Type 38 Arisaka (For ~395 Prior to Taxes and Whatnot) and I want to identify some of the Markings on the Rifle such as the Mum and the Stock Stamp as well figure out if it's a Training Rifle or Not. It seems to have locking lugs and the Aircraft sights as well.

They Also had 3 Type 99s for 400-600 and from what I can tell 2/3 have the Mum and 1 appears to be a surrendered Last Ditch Type 99, if anyone is interested I let me know I can get photos of those too.




Wood Wall Beam Composite material Roof
Vehicle Engineering Wood Gas Automotive tire
Product Floor Wood Flooring Gas
Wood Tire Gas Cylinder Automotive tire
Hood Automotive tire Automotive lighting Asphalt Road surface
Wood Handwriting Art Font Artifact
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Naval Trainer.
Do you think it's Safe to Fire? It looks like it lock lugs on the bolt most Training Rifles I've seen people talk about have no lugs. I don't recall if it had rifling however.


If it can't be fired should I look at trying to return it or should I think about reselling it? (I want to try and find a functioning Type 38/99 for fairish prices) I filled out the paperwork and passed the check but i haven't yet paid for the rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
940 Posts
Most of these were for blanks only. Do not fire live ammo in it. There were live rifles turned in for school use and purpose built trainers, this is the latter. Nice condition but if you want a shooter this is not it.

Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,876 Posts
Not safe to shoot live ammo unfortunately. It’s a training rifle for sure. No “AA sights” as its a trainer. Those are just the standard rear sight. AA sights are a feature of Type 99s and different from just a ladder sight.

I’d suggest posting on the forum prior to making any more Arisaka purchases. We’ll be happy to help direct you. In this case I’d say you overpaid for such a training rifle. Maybe see if you can return it towards the purchase of one of them other examples?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not safe to shoot live ammo unfortunately. It’s a training rifle for sure. No “AA sights” as its a trainer. Those are just the standard rear sight. AA sights are a feature of Type 99s and different from just a ladder sight.

I’d suggest posting on the forum prior to making any more Arisaka purchases. We’ll be happy to help direct you. In this case I’d say you overpaid for such a training rifle. Maybe see if you can return it towards the purchase of one of them other examples?

I've attached some photos of the other Type 99s they had. Besides the last ditch looking one with no ladder sights they all have intact mums and no stock markings.

however the stock is loose and wiggly in several placed and in one rifle grabbing it by the front of the barrel makes the wood there just slide forward.
Military camouflage Air gun Automotive tire Machine gun Yellow

Air gun Automotive tire Machine gun Wood Trigger

Bicycle part Wood Composite material Cylinder Metal

Musical instrument Air gun Trigger Wood Shotgun
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Can you post a shot of the Type 38 rifle's serial number? The one you show has been relegated for training purposes and these sometimes fall into groups.

C/
The serial number should be on the side of the bolt assembly correct? It should match the one on the tag (18572) but I call the shop and see if I can get a photo of it if it's someplace else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not sure about matching a tag number, but the serial number is on the left-hand side of the receiver, just forward of the bolt release.

C/
I'll see if I can't get a photo later today. I just spoke to the store and about it being a training rifle and they said they'd get back to me. They said they understood my concerns so here's hoping all is well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,295 Posts
Technically, it's not a training rifle, but a Type 38 service rifle that was relegated for training purposes. Genuine training rifles were produced by private companies for schools (elementary, secondary, and universities) and certain military academies. As such, they were not intended for use with ball ammunition.

There was extensive overlap between types of rifles, trainer conversions of real service rifles or actual training rifles, and the schools in which they were placed. For example, universities used both purpose-built and service rifle trainer conventions. Somewhat oddly, I have written correspondence from a former IJA soldier who indicated he had access to obsolete Murata rifles when he was in grade school. He recalled he was surprised at how long and heavy they were and how marching with them was almost impossible.

C/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Technically, it's not a training rifle, but a Type 38 service rifle that was relegated for training purposes. Genuine training rifles were produced by private companies for schools (elementary, secondary, and universities) and certain military academies. As such, they were not intended for use with ball ammunition.

There was extensive overlap between types of rifles, trainer conversions of real service rifles or actual training rifles, and the schools in which they were placed. For example, universities used both purpose-built and service rifle trainer conventions. Somewhat oddly, I have written correspondence from a former IJA soldier who indicated he had access to obsolete Murata rifles when he was in grade school. He recalled he was surprised at how long and heavy they were and how marching with them was almost impossible.

C/
I think you paid a fair price for your Japanese Type 38 anchor-marked training rifle.

ANY Japanese WWII item stamped with a navy anchor is extremely rare. When WWII was over, the Japanese navy was on the bottom of the Pacific. Your T-38 trainer was never on a ship and was used for training future troops in schools in Japan.

I have the twin brother to your rifle. The serial # on mine is 15969.

Chip Goddard collects data on the Japanese training rifles. Chip would know how many T38 trainers are reported with the cherry blossom anchor mark on the receiver.

Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Technically, it's not a training rifle, but a Type 38 service rifle that was relegated for training purposes. Genuine training rifles were produced by private companies for schools (elementary, secondary, and universities) and certain military academies. As such, they were not intended for use with ball ammunition.

There was extensive overlap between types of rifles, trainer conversions of real service rifles or actual training rifles, and the schools in which they were placed. For example, universities used both purpose-built and service rifle trainer conventions. Somewhat oddly, I have written correspondence from a former IJA soldier who indicated he had access to obsolete Murata rifles when he was in grade school. He recalled he was surprised at how long and heavy they were and how marching with them was almost impossible.

C/
Hey, I just heard back from the shop, and the Serial Number is 18572 stamped on the left of the receiver.
They also did a barrel check and said that it looks like it was shot the hell out of and they're not sure if there was extensive rifling that was/is corroded due to not being extensively cleaned.


They said they're basing their idea that it was a working rifle off of some other dealers in the area who've remarked training rifles aren't serialized. But the General Manager said that just what they could find out with their network.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Technically, it's not a training rifle, but a Type 38 service rifle that was relegated for training purposes. Genuine training rifles were produced by private companies for schools (elementary, secondary, and universities) and certain military academies. As such, they were not intended for use with ball ammunition.

There was extensive overlap between types of rifles, trainer conversions of real service rifles or actual training rifles, and the schools in which they were placed. For example, universities used both purpose-built and service rifle trainer conventions. Somewhat oddly, I have written correspondence from a former IJA soldier who indicated he had access to obsolete Murata rifles when he was in grade school. He recalled he was surprised at how long and heavy they were and how marching with them was almost impossible.

C/
If it's a Service Rifle is it "functional" or have the modifications made to it for training purposes made it unsafe for ball ammunition to be used. Sorry to ask this again. The gun shop believes it is fireable and the time it would take me to get 6.5x50mmSR would take longer than I believe the Dealer and I would like.


On a Second Note: I've heard the Naval Anchor Mum marked rifles are rare (someone mentioned in this thread but I have only seen 1 or 2 images of this type of Mum on google images as well) but I'm not sure if 350$ is a fair price and if it is being that it seems to be in an alright external condition (The dealer said the barrel looks as if it has been shot the hell out of) maybe I should try selling it to someone someplace (Or Doing a Trade idk yet..).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,368 Posts
Many "training rifles" were never rifled. So, their definition of shot to hell. Just may be their ignorance of how these rifles were made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Just to clarify, the rifle in the first post is a naval training rifle and it has on the receiver top an encircled anchor with cherry blossom placed in the center. This rifle should be smooth bore and can only fire blanks. The stock is marked in kanji with 実包ヲ禁ス. The translation of which can be found in post #7.

The other rifle that "seinen" was asking about is marked on the receiver top with a chrysanthemum followed by 文三八式. The 文 character stands for the 文部省 [Ministry of Education] while the 三八式 is the model name which means "38 Type."

My question is, which rifle has the serial number of 18572?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Just to clarify, the rifle in the first post is a naval training rifle and it has an encircled anchor with cherry blossom in the center of the anchor. This rifle should be smooth bore and can only fire blanks. The stock is marked in kanji with

The other rifle that "seinen" was asking about is marked on the receiver top with a chrysanthemum followed by 文三八式. The 文 character stands for 文部省 [Ministry of Education] while the 三八式 means "38 Type."

My question is, which rifle has the serial number of 18572?

The Naval Trainer is Marked 18572.

The Other Rifle(s) (It's 3 that look almost similar) you mentioned are marked as Type 99s at the Shop. I can get Photos of their Serial numbers in about 30ish minutes. I apologize for the confusion on my part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
OK, I am back on track. The store has one naval training rifle, which you indicate is paid for, one 6.5 mm Type 38 Infantry Rifle that was seconded to the Ministry of Education, and two late 7.7 mm Type 99 Short Rifles. I refer to the Type 99 Rifles as late as neither of them have type markings as far as I can tell. We will now go back to our regular programming.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top