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At the Lakeland gun show, found a dealer who has a case of TCW 100 gr FMJ ammo packaged in the 16 round box. B-West import.

A bit on the expensive side, $3.49/16, but I guess if someone buys in bulk the price might come down. I have the contact information at the office now but if someone wants it, I'll gladly pass it along as soon as I get my arse down there.

Oh yes, I found myself in one of those rare splurging moments and purchased three(3) boxes. Mostly for sentimental reasons.
 

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I remember buying ammo which actually had the B-West headstamp on the case. It was good cheap ammo, back in the days of $180 E. German Mak's. Is that stuff collectible now?
 

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I remember buying ammo which actually had the B-West headstamp on the case. It was good cheap ammo, back in the days of $180 E. German Mak's. Is that stuff collectible now?
In my opinion ALL 9x18mm is collectible now. I went to the gunshow today near my hometown. 9x18 last year was available in Wolf, Silver Bear, and Brown Bear in both FMJ and HP. Today I saw only one brand, Silver Bear, at one dealer. He wanted 15.00 a box. The cheapest that 9x18 can be ordered online is for 10 a box once you count shipping. Big change from the days of $4 a box Barnaul. Pawnshops locally are selling Fiochii and Winchester 9x18 for $17 to $25 a box.

I wish I thought it was going to get better, but lately I've begun to think it will only get worse. The cost of metal for bullets has gone up worldwide, and companies have to decide where to make big orders of bullets. I think traditional calibers like 9mm, .38 special, .22lr, etc are going to get manufactured more and more because they represent far more numerous guns. I think even countries overseas like Wolf, Silver Bear, and Barnaul have begun to realize this and are making more of these calibers. It makes sense. How many guns use 9x18 Makarov ammo that have been imported to the US? Four brands? Five maybe? Makarovs, CZ-82s, FEG-63, Polish P-64, and one or two other brands...but as far as I know, that's it. Compare that to the 100's of different 9mm pistols that have been made in the past, and are still continuing to be made even today.

Use to be, overseas countries could be relied on to make 9x18 Makarov in fairly cheap amounts, but transportation costs from the other side of the world, and the cost of material seems to have effected them. They made their name of supplying Commie brand ammo...but now they are expanding their product line into "Western" calibers. I think the poor ole 9x18 Makarov is having a tough time competing against the profit margin of these other guns.

Before it's over, we may look back and remember the days when 9x18 was "only" $20 a box.
 

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Before it's over, we may look back and remember the days when 9x18 was "only" $20 a box.
Promoting Maks, any pistols that use 9X18 and the shooting of 9X18 ammo will help keep the demand for 9x18 from declining quickly. Obviously, less need for 9X18, means importers and manufacturers will be less interested in offering it and that means higher prices.

I guess word of mouth is the best way to promote, but there are others. As was pointed out a few weeks ago, the Mak got a recent mention on TV -- the Burn Notice. We need more of that.
 

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Promoting Maks, any pistols that use 9X18 and the shooting of 9X18 ammo will help keep the demand for 9x18 from declining quickly. Obviously, less need for 9X18, means importers and manufacturers will be less interested in offering it and that means higher prices.

I guess word of mouth is the best way to promote, but there are others. As was pointed out a few weeks ago, the Mak got a recent mention on TV -- the Burn Notice. We need more of that.
I think in order to keep 9x18 alive as a caliber so that it doesn't become a novelty ammunition like .44-40, or .38 Super, or, Japanese 7mm, you would need to have new guns being made in 9x18 or imported to the US. All of the calibers I mentioned in the previous sentence at one time had millions of guns made in those calibers. At one time you could find them everywhere, and every ammunition company in the US produced them. (excepting the Japanese ammunition of course). My preference would be for new Makarovs to be produced, but truthfully it just needs to be a handgun that used 9x18 and was popular enough to catch everyone's attention. (Used by Brendon Fraser in one of the Mummy sequels perhaps? :) ) But I don't think you are going to see that either. I think the EU is going to clamp down as much as it can on exporting handguns. We've seen the Estonian trash compactor pictures with all the Maks to know they are fairly serious. There was probably a million dollars worth of Makarovs in that one trash bin before they destroyed it. So I think large scale imports in the future of (surplus) handguns from Europe is out.

That means domestic production of a new 9x18. A Glock version maybe. Or Smith and Wesson. Or some other new company. "New Maks Limited" maybe? ;) But I just don't see a people investing money in producing a firearm that will be so narrowly tailored.

I think right now we are looking at a slow motion elevation of 9x18mm prices deliberately from all the companies in the world...including the Russian companies, but definately the US companies. The margins for profit become much greater for a company if they are selling 9x18 at $20 a box rather than $5 a box. At $5 a box, you can expect at most maybe .75 cents profit to the company on every box. Your other calibers sell more and are higher priced, so naturually 7.62x39 will be produced more than 9x18. So to keep 9x18 viable, you have to make it profitable. At $20 a box, you can probably make $3, or $5 profit if you are the company. Yes, you'll sell fewer boxes...but you'll be producing fewer boxes..so your costs are lower...and you'd be making $5 profit per box which is 6.66 :D times as much profit as you would have when you were getting .75 cents (.75 X 6.66 = $5). Even if people decide to only buy 1/5 of what they did when the ammo was $5...you'd still make more money in profit than you did then. If they sold 1 million boxes of 9x18 at $5 in 2005, the profit would be 750,000 (.75 cents profit). If they sell 200,000 boxes of 9x18 at $20, (profit $5 a box) their profit is 1 million dollars. And they are producing fewer boxes...1/5 as many...which means 1/5 the costs. That's greater profit.

But they can't just raise the prices all at once. If 9x18 went from $5 a box in 2006, to $20 a box in 2007, you'd shock your customers...and they'd stop buying. So you have to gradually increase the price. It helps that prices are increasing on all goods right now too. Ammunition companies...with some justification, but not completely IMO....can say that they are raising prices to meet the growing market costs.

No...I still think we are going to see $18, $20, maybe even $25 a box Silver Bear, or Wolf within 2-3 years.
 

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Is this the ammo you saw except this is in a 50 round box?

Could be we are just entering another lull in the importation of 9x18. Hopefully it won't be a full scale shortage like it was 1-2 yrs. ago.
 

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No, the ammo I saw was Silver Bear 94gr hollow point. The dealer only had one kind of 9x18 ammunition, and he was the only dealer in the gunshow who had any at all. Strangely, $15 a box didn't shock me all that much. I didn't buy any, but I'd seen boxes of Fiochii and Winchester 9x18 in a pawnshop a couple of days before that and they wanted $18 dollars for the Fiochii and $25 for the Winchester.

Most places online are charging 7.50 to 9.00 for a box of inexpensive 9x18 (Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear). By the time it's shipped, the dealers costs might equal out to $10 or $12 per box. He has to make a profit, so he tacks on 20%, which brings it up to about $15. I wasn't upset at the dealer for asking that price.

As to it being a brief lull in 9x18...well, it might be. The war in Iraq and other places probably means Russian companies are trying to fill orders to sell to the Iraqi government, or to the Iranian government...or maybe even to the US government. They are probably pumping out 9x19, .223, and 7.62x39 and don't have the time or inclination to run off a few hundred thousand 9x18 rounds for overseas export.

If the war ends, it could stop. But I don't notice anyone predicting that 7.62x39 is going to go down in price to pre-2006 levels if the war stops. ($80 per 1000...those were the days) And 7.62x39 has got a MUCH larger following than 9x18.

No, I think we Makarov fans have just been lucky the last few years because some Russian companies saw it in their interest to compete against US companies that weren't taking 9x18 very seriously. But now that those companies are competing with US ammo makers over more products, they can step away from 9x18 and focus on other offerings.
 

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No, the ammo I saw was Silver Bear 94gr hollow point. The dealer only had one kind of 9x18 ammunition, and he was the only dealer in the gunshow who had any at all. Strangely, $15 a box didn't shock me all that much. I didn't buy any, but I'd seen boxes of Fiochii and Winchester 9x18 in a pawnshop a couple of days before that and they wanted $18 dollars for the Fiochii and $25 for the Winchester.

Most places online are charging 7.50 to 9.00 for a box of inexpensive 9x18 (Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear). By the time it's shipped, the dealers costs might equal out to $10 or $12 per box. He has to make a profit, so he tacks on 20%, which brings it up to about $15. I wasn't upset at the dealer for asking that price.
Silver Bear, 500 rnds, 75.00 plus 12.00 to ship, 87.00. 8.70 a box. Online auction, (GB) not sure if I can mention the name or not, ammunitioncenter is the ID. He's got a lot of nice stuff with decent (for these trying times) prices.
 

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Silver Bear, 500 rnds, 75.00 plus 12.00 to ship, 87.00. 8.70 a box. Online auction, (GB) not sure if I can mention the name or not, ammunitioncenter is the ID. He's got a lot of nice stuff with decent (for these trying times) prices.
'Preciate it. I'll probably order some soon just to stock up. I'm also thinking about doing something I thought I'd never do....switch the barrel on the Mak to .380. I just hate the idea of stepping down to a less potent round.
 

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AIM has the Silver Bear at the $7.50 per 50. I've got 500 being delivered tomorrow.


regards....roger
 

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What do you think the recent flood of newly C&R'ed CZ-82 pistols will do for 9x18 availability? I would think the increase in demand for the cartridge would get more ammunition makers looking in its direction. Perhaps bringing out new offerings in the future. In any case the best way to keep the 9x18 alive is to buy more and shoot more. I know, I know, what a chore!
 

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AIM has the Silver Bear at the $7.50 per 50. I've got 500 being delivered tomorrow.


regards....roger
Is that minus the shipping? If that's the shipped price I'll see ya'll later, I'm off to the AIM website.
 

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'Preciate it. I'll probably order some soon just to stock up. I'm also thinking about doing something I thought I'd never do....switch the barrel on the Mak to .380. I just hate the idea of stepping down to a less potent round.

Yeah, and the real bite is that .380 is expensive anyway, but is at least plentiful. Best way to deal with Mak ammo shortage is reloading. I still buy 9x18 when I find it at the right price, but I reload it too and it's cheap, worked out to something like 4 or 5 cents a round using lead. You can use the brass up to 10 times (so "they" say) but I usually stop at 8. I tend to lose some of the brass anyway, 12 to 15 out of 50 most times, but then it's easy to cut 1mm off a 9x19 Luger casing and make your own Makarov brass. I bought a single stage Lee press years ago, it's been one of the best investments for me. I haven't bought a single round of .38 or .357 since about 1994/95. (Except for the WinClean that was required for my concealed carry class) I've reloaded thousands of 9x18 rounds and have had one "incident" that may have been a weak charge/no charge thing, the round just made a "pop' sound, but the bullet exited the barrel so no harm done. Reloading is a great way to save some bucks.. So far I reload .44 magnum, .357mag/.38spl, 9x19, 9x18, and .380. Something to consider, anyway...
 

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Is that minus the shipping? If that's the shipped price I'll see ya'll later, I'm off to the AIM website.

Shipping from AIM to Rhode Island was $11.00


regards....roger
 

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I see someone is selling that Tula B-West ammo on Slim Tims trader...cheap enough but who needs to put corrosive ammo through their Mak?

I don't need the aggrevation...it's bad enough that I still have some corrosive surplus ammo for my 91/30.
 
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