[Dr Zero]

Anyone remember this list? not mine but interesting none the less


Top 100 Items to Disappear First During a National Emergency

1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.)
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Livestock

 

[oldgoat46]

Generators: Smaller ones consume less fuel (duh) Size your generator to suit your climate. If you want to run your refridgerator freezer 300 watts of light and a couple of fans a 3000 watt continuous (4500 watt surge) will do it. Fuel usage will be about 7 gallons for 24 hours. In the South if you are going to try and run a couple of window AC units you will need 7.5 KW continuous/ 9KW surge and the fuel consumption will be 10-12 gal per 24 hours. Best solution is use a smaller gen set and make ice with the surplus power. Forget the gensets that run on propane. the efficiency is half of the gasoline units. Remember: The average light duty generators as sold by home depot, northern tool etc need oil change every 100 hours. Best bet is spend more and get the largest engine to power ratio you can find. The more you spend the longer it will last. Diesel? sure if it is liquid cooled. the cheap air cooled diesel gen sets out there are not worth buying. We have been operating a cabin on a remote island since 1982 and have tried everything. A combination of solar and generator works best.

 

[Petrov]

Generators: Smaller ones consume less fuel (duh) Size your generator to suit your climate. If you want to run your refridgerator freezer 300 watts of light and a couple of fans a 3000 watt continuous (4500 watt surge) will do it. Fuel usage will be about 7 gallons for 24 hours. In the South if you are going to try and run a couple of window AC units you will need 7.5 KW continuous/ 9KW surge and the fuel consumption will be 10-12 gal per 24 hours. Best solution is use a smaller gen set and make ice with the surplus power. Forget the gensets that run on propane. the efficiency is half of the gasoline units. Remember: The average light duty generators as sold by home depot, northern tool etc need oil change every 100 hours. Best bet is spend more and get the largest engine to power ratio you can find. The more you spend the longer it will last. Diesel? sure if it is liquid cooled. the cheap air cooled diesel gen sets out there are not worth buying. We have been operating a cabin on a remote island since 1982 and have tried everything. A combination of solar and generator works best.

A somewhat remote off-the-grid place for sale about 30 miles from me runs off a 12 KW Kohler. Owners says they run it 1-2 hours a day to charge the batteries which comes to 3-4 gallons of propane. An expensive proposition with propane approaching $4 a gallon here. Any idea how long a generator like that lasts? They appear to be warranteed for something like 2000 hours.

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

I think you are off on the propane to gasoline energy ratio .. closer to 90%, and propane has some advantages over gasoline


...this site upholds the USA GOVERNMENT standards for free speech

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

A somewhat remote off-the-grid place for sale about 30 miles from me runs off a 12 KW Kohler. Owners says they run it 1-2 hours a day to charge the batteries which comes to 3-4 gallons of propane. An expensive proposition with propane approaching $4 a gallon here. Any idea how long a generator like that lasts? They appear to be warranteed for something like 2000 hours.

Petrov.. something hinky about that battery charging


Just saying

 

[Petrov]

Thanks for the summary Sarge. Yeah, things seem a bit "off"; the owner in this case said "The battery capacity is 1500 amps at 12 volts. We turn on the generator once a night to pump water, do laundry and charge the batteries at the same time. Usually the generator is on for an hour a day, probably 1 1/2- 2 hours in the winter time."

 

[Gravel]

There's one more item to add to the list of Top 100 Items to Disappear First During a National Emergency . . . peoples' sensibilities!

That's a broad brush-stroke of a comment to say . . . I realize not everybody's sensibilities will go by the wayside. But, I get this strong feeling that a portion of the populace will become very irrational during such times of crisis . . . hence, I feel that sensibilities will also disappear among a portion of the populace when a national emergency strikes.

And when that happens, they put themselves, and others with sensibilities, in peril.

 

[mustang69]

Gravel, I agree with you. Just look how people react in a friggin traffic jam or how there's a run on bread and milk when 1" of snow is forcast. Doesn't take much to get folks out of comfort zones...

 

[jkaler48]

Good list BUT Prescription Pain meds/antibiotics etc will disappear much faster than underwear and some other items on the list. It is already harder than all get out to get narcotic pain medications if you aren't a drug addict.

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

Thanks for the summary Sarge. Yeah, things seem a bit "off"; the owner in this case said "The battery capacity is 1500 amps at 12 volts. We turn on the generator once a night to pump water, do laundry and charge the batteries at the same time. Usually the generator is on for an hour a day, probably 1 1/2- 2 hours in the winter time."

but the batteries can't.

 

[Petrov]

Again, nice summary. The guy has forced air heating; not sure why he did that; I don't even like it on the grid. He has a few hundred watts worth of aging solar panels - which of course don't do him a lot of good when he needs to run the forced air - and I believe he is running just one smallish fridge.

 

[Muggzy]

I'm quite sure that Item #24 will be moved to #1 spot for me. I'll be trading precious items for my wife's makeup. she is not going anywhere, even to a disaster, without her makeup . ( humor for you...I hope)

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

Again, nice summary. The guy has forced air heating; not sure why he did that; I don't even like it on the grid. He has a few hundred watts worth of aging solar panels - which of course don't do him a lot of good when he needs to run the forced air - and I believe he is running just one smallish fridge.

Even just a "a few hundred watts of aging solar panels" ( solar panels as a general rule still provide 90% of rated power at 20 years old) ,, lets say the smallest number qualifing as "a few hundred" 300 watts @ 12 volts is up to 25 amps to the batteries per hour of light. you have light even with overcast clouds.. the stronger the light, the closer to your full 25 amps an hour you feed into the batteries. For comparison I have twelve 235 watt @ 29 volt panels. Ganged together in groups of 3 panels the array puts out about 8 amps at 90 volts per 3 panel group or about 32 amps @ 90 volts , my controler steps that down and matches the optimum voltage to charge my 400 amp 48 volt system at arround 52 amps @ 50 volts .. give or take depending on if I am bulk charging or in absorbtion phase or trickling ... All the voltage manipulation is to boost voltage and reduce amps for transmission purposes etc .. apples to apples my panels if they were at 12 volts would be doing arround 200 amps per hour , the theoretcal 1/8 of my capacity needng 4 hours to replace half my battery capacity which is the most I would want to draw down without losing to much battery life etc .. of course my light right now is spread out over about 12 hours a day and my average here is about 5 hours of full sun equivalent @ 90 degrees dead on the panel.. cloud cover and angle of the sun reduce that 12 hours to the equvilent of 5 hours stationary sunlight at 90 degree to the panel and full sun generative power. So my panels are providing roughly 1000 amp @ 12 volt which is 100 amps at 120 volts household power over a 20-24 hour period or about 5 amps a hour + any excess the batteries can't use in absortion or trickle charging cycle.

 

[oldgoat46]

Here is a good first hand comparison. We had a 10 KW Onan set up to run on propane. It would consume 150 pounds of propane every 24 hours. that was at a cost of
$87.30 every day. We converted the same gen set to gasoline and burned 11.5 gallons per day. at a cost of $41.97per day. That comparison was made back when gasoline was #3.65 per gallon. the only advantage to propane or CNG is that it stores longer and in some cases is piped right onto your property. A good Onan or Kohler (CI block should be good for 10,000 hours if you change oil and filter regularly. One thing you can do to dramatically improve the life of even a cheap generator is place a small fan nearby to aid in the air flow around it.

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

oldgoat not trying to argue .. but spec sheets for Onan 10 KW say about a gallon an hour at half load for gasoline http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/html/Common/pdf/specsheets/a-1455.pdf your 11.5 gallons of gas a day sort of matches the no load fuel consumption of .44 gallons an hour

Your propane useage is very close to spec for half load http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/9114OsFCfaL.pdf for apples to apples, 4.11 pounds of liquid propane is 1 gallon and has about 90% the energy of gasoline

based on factory specs the costs should be close somehow.... you were getting terrific "milage" on gasoline

Generators are incredibly expensive compared to other forms of electricity , and as you mention storing gasoline is dangerious.

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

1#...common since which drives the list!

 

[oldgoat46]

Ammo I have read the spec sheets that came with the Onan. My data comes from compliations and cabin records kept over 4 years of actually using the generator. Propane will eat you out of house and home. The data and window sticker on my Toyota Tundra said 18 highway. I think the writer of that spec was on happy pills. Keeping an engine cool is the key to longevety and performance. As I said we started running a small fan in the generator house which in the summertime especially helped lower the in ambient temp in the house by 7 degrees. We have been using generators to power that cabin since 1982. I can tell you that cheap ones will go about 200-2500 hours at best, Big heavy units like the Onan will run well, we don't know we are at 5000 hrs + and counting.