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Awesome find.
Awesome post/posts.
Congratulations.
Thanks for keeping history together for the estate, would love to see some pictures of the structures.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Awesome find.
Awesome post/posts.
Congratulations.
Thanks for keeping history together for the estate, would love to see some pictures of the structures.
As this is a gunboard, I won't post those in here, but those who are interested can check the instagram page, that follows the renovation of the house (sorry, it's only in Finnish).

https://www.instagram.com/kourlankartano/
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Earth and straw packed between the inner and outer cladding?
At the bottom layer and between 1st and 2nd floor earth (dry clay and sand), some straw, peat, sawdust and in the attic (upper insulation) just sawdust. There's no insulation in the outer walls. From outside in: Plaster, boards, logs and inside fabric wallpaper + backing paper + normal wall paper.
 

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Is kourlankartano the name of the estate? Is that white statue/relief of the man the guy the Reds murdered in 1918? And, I'd have to ask since I'm in the U.S.A. with its popular culture, television and film industry: "Are there local legends or lore that the house is.... haunted?" :?:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
Is kourlankartano the name of the estate? Is that white statue/relief of the man the guy the Reds murdered in 1918? And, I'd have to ask since I'm in the U.S.A. with its popular culture, television and film industry: "Are there local legends or lore that the house is.... haunted?" :?:rolleyes:
The name of the estate is Kourla and kartano is Finnish word meaning mansion. And yes, that man in that white relief is the one, who got murdered in 31.1.1918. That is a copy of the bronze relief, that's on his grave in Vihti cemetery.

And nobody has said that the house is haunted :)
 

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Very cool, it looks like a beautiful estate. The construction of the main house is kind of a cross between how we built log houses and adobe houses around the turn of the century, as near as I can tell. I admire your work in preserving the history.

Thanks.
 

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A good documentary to watch was made by the National Film Board of Canada called, 'Letters from Karelia' found on Vimeo. It does try to portray the SA in a negative light in my opinion.
Some communists serving in the SA did go to the Russian side too. After the war when my father worked at Tampella one of these deserters (now protected) asked my dad where he had been during the war. They both had been in the same area near Stalin's canal when he went over to the other side. He asked my dad if he would have shot him if he had seen him cross over. The response was 'yes.'
I need to check out that documentary film you referred to. Pardon my ignorance, what is SA in this context?
 

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I thought there was a reply by someone regarding this, but it is no longer here.

Anyway, the reason I was wondering about the SA reference was because of this, below:

After the civil war of 1918 in Finland, thousands of reds went to Russia to build the perfect socialistic society. Many had emigrated to US and Canada and left from there for the USSR. This mostly happened in the 20's and early 30's as far as I know.

These folks initially thrived in the socialistic paradise. There were Finnish schools, newspapers etc. Life was good. This all changed when Stalin took over. By 1939, Stalin had hard time finding any native Finns for his Terijoki puppet exile government, his sorry excuse for attacking Finland in 1939. He had killed or sent to Siberia just about all the Finns and other minorities.

The number of Finnish soldiers who went to the USSR side during the war was a handful or so at best as far as I know.

The Stalin's Canal reference is relevant because it was built by prisoners of Stalin including thousands of Finns who went to the USSR in good faith. Many Finns died there.

Some 15000 Finns went to the USSR in the 1920's and 1930's. Most were killed by Stalin by 1939.

Only a few Finns ever returned from the USSR in the 1950's during the Kruthcev thaw. One of them was Taisto Huuskonen, who wrote a book 'Laps Suomen" (Child of Finland). This book is hard to find but is a great account of life in Stalins USSR. Sad reading.
 

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I thought there was a reply by someone regarding this, but it is no longer here.

Anyway, the reason I was wondering about the SA reference was because of this, below:

After the civil war of 1918 in Finland, thousands of reds went to Russia to build the perfect socialistic society. Many had emigrated to US and Canada and left from there for the USSR. This mostly happened in the 20's and early 30's as far as I know.

These folks initially thrived in the socialistic paradise. There were Finnish schools, newspapers etc. Life was good. This all changed when Stalin took over. By 1939, Stalin had hard time finding any native Finns for his Terijoki puppet exile government, his sorry excuse for attacking Finland in 1939. He had killed or sent to Siberia just about all the Finns and other minorities.

The number of Finnish soldiers who went to the USSR side during the war was a handful or so at best as far as I know.

The Stalin's Canal reference is relevant because it was built by prisoners of Stalin including thousands of Finns who went to the USSR in good faith. Many Finns died there.

Some 15000 Finns went to the USSR in the 1920's and 1930's. Most were killed by Stalin by 1939.

Only a few Finns ever returned from the USSR in the 1950's during the Kruthcev thaw. One of them was Taisto Huuskonen, who wrote a book 'Laps Suomen" (Child of Finland). This book is hard to find but is a great account of life in Stalins USSR. Sad reading.
I put up two posts, but I took them down as "thread drift." The first basically re-hashed the end of the Continuation War and the Allied Control Commission, the "Red Valpo" and all that stuff. I merely posted that armies in wartime take a very dim view of desertion to the enemy. There were executions of people who did so, of course. There was even the notorious case where a hapless pacifist was shot too, which was a case of wartime hysteria. Clearly you know all that already.

All of the records at the Finnish Immigration institute in Turku/Åbo are being digitized. This time next year, they should be available for anyone with an Ancestry.com subscription. Some of the records include a martyrology of Finns in the USSR:
Finnish Russians victims of persecution 1930–1950 (over 8,000 records) This database includes data on Finns who were persecuted by Stalin in the Soviet Union in 1930–1950. The data is based on book “Olimme joukko vieras vaan” by Eila Lahti-Argutina published by the Migration Institute of Finland in 2001.

https://siirtolaisuusinstituutti.fi/en/materials/genealogy/
 

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Discussion Starter #54

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People can go here:

http://www.militaria.fi/1918puvut/1_sk.html

And see what sorts of rifles are being used. Most of the images are for the Whites in Finland's 4-month civil war, but there are some images of the Red guard too... Albeit mostly just young people in civilian clothes with an arm band and some semblance of "uniform." Some of the rifles might be of interest.

@pt66: Oh yeah. you topped it alright! :thumbsup:
 

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People can go here:

http://www.militaria.fi/1918puvut/1_sk.html

And see what sorts of rifles are being used. Most of the images are for the Whites in Finland's 4-month civil war, but there are some images of the Red guard too... Albeit mostly just young people in civilian clothes with an arm band and some semblance of "uniform." Some of the rifles might be of interest.
Just a little side note: That website focuses on uniforms and belongs to Jukka I. Mattila, whose book Mannerheimin valkoisen armeijan sotilaspuvut (Uniform's of Mannerheim's White Army) is the best source when it comes to uniforms used in Finnish Civil War. Unfortunately the book is only in Finnish and being published about decade ago is nowadays difficult to find.

As for the rifles used in Finnish Civil War, Mosin-Nagant M/91 and Japanese (Type 30, Type 35 and Type 38) formed the large majority, but there was a very wide mix of other military rifles and civilian rifles being used in the war. The mixed rifles were also a factor in some events since their ammunition was not easily available. Another weapon type used in the war were single and dual barrel shotguns, which were commonly used particularly early on - simply because they were easily available. Handguns use included in addition of officially issued pistols basically anything and everything that had been available from any source, including civilian market.
 

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Finnish book stores have pretty much every book we in the States have in English, Finnish, and Swedish, plus a whole bunch of titles in Finnish only! For us monolingual types it can be daunting. I was pretty much like "sell me a coffee table book of line drawings of Suomenlinna fortress! Whatever it costs I will pay!" But that was one of the books in Finnish only! :cry:;)

Maybe PT66 can network with other "attic rifle finders" and do a book--Rifles found in Finnish attics--and market it, hmm? :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
Managed to find on sale a bayonet for this attic find and bought it. Bit worn out (and has number/serial 158721 stamped in it), but still a nice combo.

IMG_9487_Fotor.jpg

IMG_9491_Fotor.jpg

IMG_9493_Fotor.jpg
 

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PT66, you did a great find!

When talking about Winchester 1895, this picture has etched into my mind.

Fallen son.png

Caption: "A farmer Herrala from Töysä beside with his fallen son".


At beginning of civil war, white army consisted mainly of farmers of northern Finland
 

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We all know that SA.

Looking at post #37, that SA does not make sense to me, thus the question.
Hi:

The reference SA is in the time context of the Continuation War and shortly post-war and not the Civil War or 1930's. The Finnish Army went pretty deep into Russian territory during the Continuation War.
 
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