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Muffett, like you I am filling in a cold day! Thanks for the figures on the many thousands of LLE on issue to the Rifle Clubs.This is a bit earlier than I was aware of. The sale of these rifles by 1920 was complicated by the impressment of LLE in civilian possession during WW1
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Well Swede, the last column of this schedule lists the Martini Enfields in 303.
There were 14,908 in store, 2,478 in service, 9,001 on loan to RC's a total of 26,387
A breakdown by states is given.
 

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Bored stiff, lousey weather and little else to do, I spent some time cuddling the odd rifle or two and thought of better days.

Getting old's a bugger.

I was holding my 1905 Mk.1 which got me thinking how many of this year were actually issued.....so into the paperwork I delved....like I said, bored.

According to my records....schedule E of the Military Forces stocktake of 1905 gives a total of only 4,907.
A breakdown by States
NSW 1638 with 162 in stores Vic. 1388 with 291 in stores QLD. 877 with 3 in stores S.A 566 with 54 in stores W.A 265 with 92 in stores Tas. 170 with 110 in stores.
With another 120 on order.

LLE's totalled 30375 and Martini's 26988, their breakdown per state is interesting, I'd post the chart but the print quality is lousy.
So the cupboard was not exactly bare at Federation.
Muffet, seems to accord well with the actual rack numbers and issue dates observed.

Almost all (if not all) of the NSW rifles referred to must have been ALH issue made by LSA. The highest number I have recorded is ALH 1406 in 8/05 out of 1638 on the first issue. Looks like the 162 rifles in store (exactly 10% of the initial issue) were issued within the next 13 months from the stocktake, as I have recorded ALH 1797 issued 1/07. This one is four from the end of a potential 1800 maximum.

That solidifies the notion that there were spare rifles held in reserve that were issued across all regiments as required after the initial 1905 issues, where the rack numbers ascended with the ALH Regiment number.

Looks like the Tasmanian rifles were also ALH issue. All are recorded as being made by Enfield except for one LSA. We have 12th ALH rifles 1 to 257 issued out of a possible 280, and all are issue dated 7/05.
 

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Doogal
it looks like an early type of Hollow point now used by Speer for donkey culling shooters amongst other things. Unfortunately only in 308
Looks exactly what i used to do to my old mil-surp ammo with a file and knife when I shot mostly goats and pigs for NZ forest protection dept., in my teens, 50 years ago. Worked great on red deer in bush work in North Island hills.
I know, I know, but we're a bit like Canadians, we do things differently. Something to do with the way the water swirls in the opposite direction down the drain. Never had a blow through and only one in the ribs was ever needed.
Edit: Yes, it was a No4 mk1. My first rifle.
 

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I've been musing over the way Enfields and associated paraphernalia have become an investment vehicle, like fine wines or artwork.
Full sets of SMLE woodwork have been selling here for up to AUD$1000 - an eye-watering price given that 20-30 years ago you could hardly give it away.
$770 for a Lithgow 1913 butt.
$300 for a Lithgow rear volley sight.
$450 for a Lithgow-made machete, for goodness sake.
Tho it is 1942, I hold my Lithgow dear here in Texas. The ammo is even harder to find, so I don't get to shoot her much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Just a few more snippets , this from the Annual Report 1903
....5,000 magazine Lee Enfield Mk.1* rifles without bayonets have been obtained out of stores for the year 1903-4. An additional 5,000 Magazine Lee Enfield Mk.1* rifles with bayonets have been ordered......it is also proposed to order 5,000 Magazine Lee Enfields of the new modified shortened type during the year 1904-5.
.....a sufficient number of the 5,000 Magazine Lee Enfield rifles purchased during 1903-4 has been set aside for purchase at cost price by members of rifle clubs....

and this from 1905, ...The supply of additional rifles has been arranged so as to materially increase the stock available and indents are about to be placed for 8,000 of the latest magazine rifles.

I'd love to just be able to copy the pages to here, but the quality is bloody lousy with very fine print.
My go to magic printer is having a hissy fit that could be expensive....I just need a program to improve the print quality.....all in good time.
 

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Great info but about 70 to 80,000 rifles were send to England at the start of WW1. Is there any breakdown as to what was sent ??
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Doogal, I have seen this comment before, but in my 50+ years of playing with these things I have never seen or heard anyone actually give a reference to this.

In fact reports to the contary are more prevelant, in 1914 a report was made to the effect that Warlike stores would not be sent to the Commonwealth, orders currently in transit would be returned to England, this included 28,000 rifles? currently on order.
Supply of rifles for Australian troops was guaranteed on arrival in England , but none would be sent to Australia.

In regards to impressment only those arms currently on loan to Rifle Clubs were recalled (Trove articles 1915) but were to be used for the training of recruits, these rifles were mostly returned to Rifle Clubs in 1917/18.
About 110,000 rifles were later sent as war reperation stores, mostly 1917 and 1918 rifles that were in abundance in stores, these are more commonly accounted amongst British rifles in Australia.
Font Material property Paper Parallel Paper product Font Rectangle Paper Paper product Document Font Material property Parallel Paper Design Font Rectangle Publication Paper Paper product
 

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I tried to estimate the number of SMLEs sent to the UK (or overseas at least) in WW1. The starting point was based on working out how many SMLEs were in Australia at the outbreak of WW1 based on recording the highest MD numbers for all states noted at the end of 1914, and adding them together. It only seemed to make sense that the rifles that went overseas were carried by the 1st AIF up to the 3rd quarter of 1915, when Bean reckons that the UK took over supply of rifles. The rest we have collectively discussed at length elsewhere, but I have not seen any primary source that explicitly states that we sent rifles to the UK unaccompanied.
 
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