Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,179 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Better than most I've seen, but it's engraved. It's offset, which is something I've only seen on late Type 99s, not an early 99 (this one is a 99 long). On real mums the left and right edges of the petals are deeper and the grooves slightly wider than the top and bottom.

Can't post the auction link because it's still going on.

Wheel Automotive tire Tire Bicycle tire Tread
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,761 Posts
I would like to see that in person, before passing judgement. Your no-question definite conclusion is based on that one photo? A straight down shot!

It is not so easy as some think to restore a mum. The horrible scar of grinding has to be smooth down and then refinished all to blend in naturally. When done, there will be a low spot. A side view is needed and a flat edge side of a ruler lay over the top even better. I dont see any hint of the preparation work that would preceed a restored mum. It maybe, then, anything maybe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,761 Posts
That is a bad assumption. And puts the fear of god into the newbies. A newbie deserves good information. I was scared out of my mind when buying my Lee Enfield No5. And turns out, it is a easy gun to verify. Mums require a bit more thought. Unfortunate, but that is life. I am also seeing Uberti parts show up on repaired colt cap and balls guns. That is the nature of the hobby.

I saw some stamps on eBay. It was a guy in Europe making quality stamps. He had stamps for all the stock markings for the 1903. Actually, I have seen original stamps for 1903's for sale as well. Not origional mum stamps. I dont know how a mum was stamped. Or rolled. I dont know. Usually a crest is rolled. No idea, it is small enough it could be punched.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,179 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I feel that it's engraved, and not stamped. The edges of the petals aren't straight on the left side and it's deeper in the middle. On original stamped mums they are deeper on the left and right edges. I believe that's from the roll stamp used.

He really doesn't have a good upclose shot of the mum, nor a side view which is always a good indication of it being previously ground. The rifle has been "restored" to a certain degree with a short rifle monopod put on and a dust cover that matches in number but not in bluing. The pictures all show the metal has a layer of oil all over, which can hide imperfections.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
For my two cents, I know nothing about the correct configuration of a stamped as opposed to an etched mum,and at first glance it passes muster.But...... after taking a good look at the picture it seems the tops of TYPE 99 characters appear a lot shallower that the lower portions.They look as if they were ground down and then the entire surface was blended.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
6,676 Posts
I feel bad for kids today. There's so much fake crap in almost everything, you get turned off on joining the hobby. If this mum is fake then God help us. I would have thought it was almost impossible to do that considering the grinding too away enough metal . There are many books on FAKE marks for so much stuff and now this will add to that library. Sad !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
I have always steered away from Nazi marked weapons because of the seemingly high incidence of fakes, but for most other “everyday” milsurps I generally felt comfortable that I didn’t have to look too hard for fake markings, etc.

It’s really discouraging to hear so much about potential fakes in all lines of collecting. I would have never considered that someone would fake a mum. Guess I was naive….
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
The telltale sign of a restamp or new engraving is always the machining marks. The machining grooves, horizontal lines around the circumfrence of the receiver, appear similar to a brushed finish when looking closely under magnification. When creating a fake, the remnants of the old mum or the grind marks left where it was, must first be filed away smooth. This necessitates the metal be polished smooth afterward, before applying the fake new marking. The faint machining marks never survive the polishing. On this particular example the machining marks appear to extend right up to the edge lines of the mum.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top