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The Third (Reich) Face of Norwegian Krags

This was a superb thread started by Andy_P (of 8x63mm Swedish fame) in the old Military Mauser forum, where it would soon be lost forever. I therefore take the liberty to import it here:

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Andy_P
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 11:08:23 AM
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Not a Mauser, but there is no Krag forum, and you guys know German arms.

A strange beast, marked Nb 1944-014, with two German eagles, in 6.5x55. Wood uncut, but bayonet lug is cut off. What is it? Should I post elsewhere?
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Andy_P/200552311330_krag1.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Andy_P/200552311410_krag3.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Andy_P/200552311432_krag4.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Andy_P/200552311452_krag5.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Andy_P/200552311537_krag7.jpg
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Andy
www.8mmARPWildcat.pridham.ca
www.8x63swedish.pridham.ca
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Edited by - Andy_P on 02/25/2006 08:08:10 AM



JL
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 11:51:19 AM
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Not much info out there on these seldom seen rifles. Mine is Na 1943-3xx marked, all matching with bayonet lug. When I was looking for info I found that only a couple thousand were put together in 43 and 44. Found the info on one of the krag rifle sites, but I don't remember which one. I have only seen a couple others looking for info on their German marked Krags. The one I have is the only one I have seen for sale. JL
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need bayonet lug and band for Danish krag cavalry or engineer carbine. JL



gew88guy
France
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 8:35:03 PM
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WOW ! I guess when it comes to WW2 German arms a man better never say, "ain't no such thing".

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http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-December99.html
Imperial German Regimental Markings

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:gLo9Di3bwssJ:claus.espeholt.dk/mediearkiv/WAAE.pdf waa63 waffenamt&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
Das Heereswaffenamt



kriggevaer
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 9:54:20 PM
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Nice find! A Stomperud Krag-Jørgensen! Trond Wikborg has a nice write up on these on his website, http://www.geocities.com/norskevaapen/.



vaughn99
Posted - 05/24/2005 : 03:32:07 AM
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you have a Nazi Norwegian Krag Desiganted M1943 NOC ( Nazi Occupied Carbine). they were made from 1943-1944 with a total of about 1000 made in all. they were nazi marked and all were like the model 1912 carbine version just not full lentgh stocks some 1894 remarked norewegian ones have been reported but there are all norwegian maufacured and new markings added. i have seen 12 such rifles so far. most are like yours cause after the war they banned baynoets so they cut them off to comply with the laws of the country that rifle resided in. the serial range is from 152001-152300 and 301-1000 but some repeat serials have been seen but the difference is the NA, NB, NC N must equal Nazi and the leter after words is the letter block, i believe i have seen just a N before and your serial must be 14 on your rifle am i correct?? also all these rifles were assembled with unfinished parts or rifle that returned for reservicing and sometimes non maching serial parts do show up from time to time. they added a site hood also and all rifle have a very crude look to them. not the normal high quality norwegian rifle we are use to seeing. your are missing your cleaning rod and site hood :)



gaweidert
Posted - 05/24/2005 : 07:49:43 AM
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After the Germans overran Norway, they not only took possession of captured complete Krags, but also built up one from parts already in arsenals. These were issued to rear area troops, occupation troops prison guards etc. In Hogan's Heroes, Sgt. Schultz carries a Krag. This would be correct. On the Michael John Littman U.S Weapons forum below, you can get a lot more info. Don't you just love that silky smooth action.



WaPrüf2
Posted - 05/24/2005 : 08:50:12 AM
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The Krag carried by Schulz in HOGAN'S HEROS is a U.S. model.
When the Germans got around to disarming the Danish army (1942?) many Danish Krags were turned over to the Luftwaffe.
It seems highly unlikely to me that the N prefix on the NOCs = "Nazi."
The term "Nazi Occupation Carbine" is a collector's term, not, so far as I know, an official designation.
Note, on the website referenced, the German grenade launcher adapted for use on these rifles by addition of a slot which fits around the bayonet stud when fixed on the rifle.



malaki
Posted - 05/24/2005 : 10:41:52 AM
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At least one other text lists the designation as:

G.211(n) - Norwegian Krags
G.311(d) - Danish Krags



WaPrüf2
Posted - 05/24/2005 : 11:49:32 PM
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I did a little digging. The following is based on an extensive discussion of these arms in: Karl Hanevik, Krag-Jorgensen gevaeret, Halden (Norway) 1994, ISBN 82-993143-0-5.
N is thought to indicate German "Norwegische" = Norwegian; the suffix letter the series. Thus Na = Norwegian (series) a, etc.
The first lot was numbered: Na152001-152175; the second lot carried on the numbering but eliminated the first three digits: Na 176-1000; these lots were made in 1943. Lot Nb001-1000, Nc39001-39300, 471-520, 1901-2150 were made in 1944, for a total production run of 2600.
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It's too bad this book is not available in English; it is very thorough.
Unfortunately I can't extract much more from this with reliability since my Norwegian is rudimentary to nil....



Gunrunner
Posted - 02/26/2006 : 1:00:47 PM
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I have one of the long Krags in 6.5 marked Nb1944-801, it's all matching and in exc. condition but no cleaning rod or sling. Would anybody know where I might find a rod and sling? Chuck



retpo
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 8:37:26 PM
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try kragcollectorsassociation.org many photos and also a forum.

jousters.com has a krag forum , both have a wealth of knowledge about all different krag variations.



DocAV
Posted - 03/01/2006 : 09:13:09 AM
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The Germans probably issued these "Norwegische" Gewehre (all "fremde Geräte" were classed "Gewehr") to Quisling units within Norway.
The Germans did take over the excellent Colt-Browning M1927 watercooled MGs (in 7,92x61 Norwegian) and utilised them on Eastern front trains and Railroad depots, for protection and A-A use (probably converted to 7,9x57 for ease of ammunition supply (from a Book on the Reichsban in WW II, with Lots of photos of especially the Eastern front, taken by a Railways Officer). They also took over the Danish Madsen heavy MG in 8x58R, and rebuilt them into beltfed guns for AA defence for the Luftwaffe, again in 7,9mm. Saw one of these reviewed some 35 years ago , in G&A magazine (or was it "Guns"?)in the USA. (it was presented as a complete outfit, with tripod, chest, spares, etc, just as bought from Interarms Virginia, in working order at the time.)

Interesting what the Germans did with occupation Weaponry.

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics
 
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