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The Glock .45 G.A.P. is here to stay! (IMHO)

18K views 118 replies 22 participants last post by  Boris Bush 
#1 · (Edited)
Wow! Just shot a full size Glock 37 today. Chambered in the 45 GAP. When this round and the 9mm frame chambered pistols hit the market I said this is really cool because I have small hands.

The nay sayers.... No it'll never last it's a flash in the pan. You'll never find ammo at Wally World. OK, OK' got a point about the ammo.
The round sounds different than a 45 ACP but in the Glock Model 37 it seemed to be a nice shooting pistol. Just "different".

I'm going to get one! My brother doesn't care for them but I can't find anything not to like. It's a reloaders round but what the heck.

I read that the 45 GAP was an answer to non existant problem. I kinda disagree with that. I like the feel of the pistol and with my smaller hands, it fits very well. AND no bones about it I just like a Glock.

Handled a Springfied XD in the GAP but it was the same size pistol as the 45 ACP no benefit there....and I heard Springfield was discontinuing the GAP offering. I can see that. Nothing gained.

Glock got it right but you just don't hear much about it. Wonder why????

Draybo
 
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#4 ·
If you have small hands shoot a 1911A1 type, single action, single stack. And for concealed carry you are better off with a thinner pistol than a stubby, squat one.

BTW after reading the nonsense on how the shorter case made the 45 G.A.P. "better" I was inspired to invented the ultimate 45 cal round.

The 45 N.A.P.

For "Not A Pistol". No case at all. It's a sock with a double handful of 45 cal bullets.
 
#5 ·
The nay sayers.... No it'll never last it's a flash in the pan. You'll never find ammo at Wally World.

I read that the 45 GAP was an answer to non existant problem.

Glock got it right but you just don't hear much about it. Wonder why????

Draybo
I think you have kind of answered your own question. It is because most people tend to consider it an answer to a non existant problem. With the ammunition not being readily available it is hard for many to get behind it. Add to that the fact that the .40 S&W (like it or not) filled the niche between 9MM and .45 acp first and has been accepted much more in many more models, and you have a very hard row to hoe. The .40 also has the benefit of being chambered in nearly identical, in some cases indentical, pistols as the 9MM which is very attractive to perspective buyers across the board. The .40 had a built in advantage when it came out, FBI backing, and the hi cap magazine ban. Since they could only have limited rounds in thier 9 mm pistols people accepted the same pistol , same number of rounds in a larger caliber. All the GAP has really going for it are those individuals with smaller hands, who do not want to shoot the thinner 1911 single stacks or those pistols are still too thick of grip but do not want a .40 or 9MM. Not the largest base to begin with unfortunately.

Then there is the fact that normally, new rounds contend with one another until most fall away and one comes out ahead, and I think (personal opinion/guess), the .357 Sig will outlast the GAP for those buyers who want something other than the .40, 9MM, or .45acp. It just seems to get more press from what I have seen.

In revolvers the .327 magnum might be the one new round that has a shot at becoming accepted.
 
#10 ·
I agree in concept but disagree in what's been applied.

I don't really believe the 357 Sig can compare to a hotrod .357 125 grain magnum load. Never has, never will.

Chambering the 7.62X25 in modern handguns will never happen. And the 327 Magnum is DOA (again in IMHO).

The Gap meets the .45 ACP in a smaller package as far as the Glock Automatic Pistol is concerned. Yehaw (thier marketing ploy).

As a side note; reloading puts a helluva lot of fun back into the sport regarding the G.A.P.

Now it's a toss up between the Glock Model 37 (the one I shot) or the Glock Model 38 "midsize".

Draybo
 
#6 ·
Keep track of this one Draybo and bring it back up in about, oh, 5 years, and remind us of the GAP being "here to stay".

You may have to explain to some noobies what the cartrige is, or was, as the case may be.

.357 Sig was a .357 Magnum in an autopistol, should be a sure winner.

Where'd it go?

Yet another "solution to a nonexistant problem".

It's mighty hard to market a "fix" to something that only a very tiny percentage of the market considers "broken".

There's a market for $1,000/pair ladies shoes too, a mighty SMALL market.

There's a market for gloves to come singly, not in "pairs", due to some loss of one appendage, why hasn't someone filled that niche?
Production and marketing too expensive to be carried by sales to far to few purchasers.

Glad you like the cartrige.
If you plan on keeping it for "the long haul", I suggest you save every piece of brass and find a set of reloading dies NOW, before they become custom set. (Lee has them currently, most people just use .45 Auto, so when you can't find GAP dies, you can use the ones I use.

I know people who own .357 Sig, who don't handload, who won't shoot it, because of the cost and availability (lack of) of ammo.

Starline brass, today, .357 Sig, $88/500. (Backordered expected availability: 07/31/2010 )
.45 GAP, $82/500, this part I find funny: "(Backordered expected availability: NEXT RUN WHEN SUFFICIENT BACKORDER ACHIEVED )"
.45 Auto, $78/500. (Backordered expected availability: 06/15/2010 )

Don't feel bad tho, the firearms world is full of "someone's good idea" that wasn't nearly as good, or nearly as desired, as someone thought it was.

.44 Automag, .45 Super, 9x23mm, About anything with "Detonics" attached to it, .41 Magnum was a good round, nobody wanted it, 460 Rowland, anything from "Wildey", I really think the 500S&W will wind up in this list before too long as well.
I think Beyowulf will be in the same "boat" before long too, far to "niche", far too many "proprietary" parts, far too few custom mod and feeding sources.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well it seems the .357 Sig has fallen by the wayside. But I have thought from day one the GAP would succeed.

My brothers on the boards are my best sounding board. Thank you guys, all that post thier thoughts. And of course all comments are taken to heart.

Number one regarding the GAP.... It is a reloaders proposition and may I add a reloaders "deliight". No longer are the old pressure limits of .45 ACP data relevant. Stonger brass an NO MORE Glock bulge! Yehaw!! Did you hear that. No bulge so that means the cartridge is meant to be reloaded for this chambering without "issues".

Jacketed bulles only. NO problem. I hate removing lead and the velocities this pistol functions under lead isn't an option anyway. Saves clean up time!

Can't find brass? That is an obstical. Maybe when Starline makes a run maybe a 1-2K order would be a good investment.

What I found shooting the pistol is a that it's recoil is comparable to a .40 S$W but I found a pychological preconsemption of a much harder recoil impulse. Definately NOT the case.

Dang! I just like the round and the gun. Fixin' to put one on order and the crimp die too.
 
#44 ·
....................... Number one regarding the GAP.... It is a reloaders proposition and may I add a reloaders "deliight". No longer are the old pressure limits of .45 ACP data relevant. Stonger brass an NO MORE Glock bulge! Yehaw!! Did you hear that. No bulge so that means the cartridge is meant to be reloaded for this chambering without "issues".
The easy cure to the Glock bulge is to NOT own a Glock, the inadvertent discharge KING bar none. Haven't and won't own one. Oh and if I can't stop it with a "old and slow" 45 ACP, I should have brought a rifle.
 
#9 ·
The .45 GAP is a nice cartridge but..........it does nothing nor does it provide anything that the .40 S&W or .45 ACP doesn't. Around here the only people I see shooting it are competitors who shoot S&W .45 revolvers with full moon clips as the shorter case allows more positive reloads and faster ejection. IMHO if you need smaller Glock than a G21 use a G17 or a G22 - and load them with 9mm and .40 ammo that will equal the performance of the .45 GAP or .45 ACP. They're are plenty of them available nowadays.
 
#12 ·
Krag, that's interesting, A "Gamesman" round. Thank You for sharing that. Having shot pistol competition for a number of years in the past your observations make perfect sense.

It's a good little round.

Draybo
 
#13 ·
Oldstuffer quoate >>>>Keep track of this one Draybo and bring it back up in about, oh, 5 years, and remind us of the GAP being "here to stay"<<<<

Already did that as a personal note six years ago.......

Draybo

(unbekannt, noted)
 
#19 ·
Oldstuffer quoate >>>>Keep track of this one Draybo and bring it back up in about, oh, 5 years, and remind us of the GAP being "here to stay"<<<<

Already did that as a personal note six years ago.......

Draybo

(unbekannt, noted)
So, you're telling me that it's already been 6 years, and the GAP pistols are virtually unavailable ('cause nobody caries them (because nobody's buying them)), the GAP ammo is virtually unavailable, (same reason(s)), and the brass is virtually unavailable ('cause nobody makes it untill enough people order some, so NONE is made "to stock"), yet, it's "here to stay"....................................

Ok.
Sure.
Whatever you say..................................................... :barf:

I would advise you to buy everything GAP you can, WHILE YOU CAN, because every single indicator (except you), say's it won't be arround long.

Untill Digital TV got mandated by the govt, it too was going to die, because no-one was buying the sets, and tuners, because of the expense and lack of broadcast media (and prevelance of cable/satelite), thus, no-one was making tuners in quantity to get the price down, and no broadcaster was wasting money on transmitters no-one could watch, because no-one was buying the sets to watch them.

Circularity.:(


Maybe .45 GAP will survive (if you can get the fed. govt. to mandate it).

Let us know how that lobying effort goes. :)


Hey, maybe in 70 years, you have a collectable! :cross
 
#14 ·
Around 6 months after Glock released their new wunder round & the gun press had already ceased hyperventilating about what a revolutionary concept the gap is/was, I wandered into a gunshop on the other side of town. It was the first, last and only place I have actually seen a gap in real life. I asked how it was selling - "Not a single one" was the reply, even though it was heavily discounted by then. Same with ammo, I saw several boxes of genuine gap ammo - no buyers. None of the gunshops on my side of town would ever admit to ever having a GAP in stock & I'd never seen one, so my conclusion was that in a few years, all the hype will have worn off & it'll be just another relic - and so it is today. As for that tired, worn out beef about having wussy little hands & not being able to handle a real Glock 21 - I just gotta call BS on that one. I have tiny little girlie paws, and I've never had any problem with my 21's. Several folks at the range professed hand size deficit syndrome, and all had hands bigger than mine, and every one finally admitted that they just heard the hand tale from someone else. Upon actually trying it out, NONE had any problem whatsoever in handling the Glock 21, nor actually getting great accuracy from their first-ever shots fired from it. Some just didn't like Glocks, plastic, or anything not a 1911, but none had issue with holding on to one.
 
#15 ·
Sorry, but I've never picked up a Glock that I could hold properly and put the pad of my last finger joint on the trigger. I end up "holding" the grip on the base of my thumb and just barely being able to pull the trigger from the side. Not conducive to hitting anything. And plenty of folks are in this situation. It's not really hand size but finger length that's the problem.
 
#16 ·
Those as likes them is welcome to have them - but i recommend (if that gun and round is to your taste) stocking up NOW. Gun (or guns0, parts and ammo. LOTS of ammo (or set up to shorten LOTS of REAL .45 cases....).
 
#17 ·
The advise to stock up on .45 GAP ammunition now, along with brass, bullets, reloading supplies, is good IMHO. I've gotten it down to .22LR, 9mm, .38/.357, and .45 acp and try do do everything I need to with those. 45 GAP may be a good idea, but is it so much better than 9mm, .40, and .45 acp that it will last? The SA XD .45 in chopped form is fine I think, and .45 acp isn't going anywhere. The Glock is an exceptional handgun, they just don't fit me right and I prefer an M1911, P.35, XD grip and angle. Just my thoughts.....
 
#18 ·
Well if you want a G37, I doubt you'll find a better deal than Bud's: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411538439

Personally I like my G21 and due to the high cost of ammo, I only shoot my P229 in 357Sig when I load up some rounds. As long as I'm reloading, I'll load up some 10mm for my G20...the handgun I shoot the most. I never saw the need to add a 45GAP to my collection because the 45ACP and 10mm do just fine.
 
#21 ·
It had better fidelity than VHS, yet died.

8-Track had better fidelity that cassette, due to wider tape (less "jamming together of the tracks) and double the tape speed (3 3/4 inch/sec vs. 1 7/8 inch/sec (again, less "crammed-together" tracks).
Maintaining head alignment was nightmarish, and the tapes wore themselves away internally (take one apart sometime and see the tape path). It died.

Apple/Macintosh Computers.
Better user interface (the GUI we all use, IBM still used "command line"), faster operation at same processor speeds, better video workings (state of the art for professional video editors, they don't use "PC", they use MAC, STILL).
Apple retracted all outside production licenses, Apple-only made them, while IBM gave them away to "clone-makers". No-one could find an Apple to buy, but wanted a computer, so bought an IBM (or clone), they were everywhere, and cheap.
 
#23 ·
One major difference, Mac's have made a major comeback from just a "specialty niche tool".


GAP's, won't.


My above "Mac-history" is how Mac basically gave away the personal computer market in the late 1980's early 1990's.
 
#24 ·
45 GAP may be an excellent compromise and efficient round. Betamax had alot of benefits. It's a matter of commercial viability and appeal to market sufficient to sustain it. IMHO, it's not so beneficial to me over my .45 acps and 9mms to buy a weapon in that caliber. Without the pistol in .45 GAP I don't need the ammunition for it or magazines either.
 
#25 ·
45 GAP may be an excellent compromise and efficient round. Betamax had alot of benefits. It's a matter of commercial viability and appeal to market sufficient to sustain it. IMHO, it's not so beneficial to me over my .45 acps and 9mms to buy a weapon in that caliber. Without the pistol in .45 GAP I don't need the ammunition for it or magazines either.
Right there is the key.

Can it possibly appeal to a big enough market to sustain it profitably. If not, it's dead, and just doesn't know it yet.

IMO it will not "convert" any .45 Auto aficianatos, not doe to any "predjudice" (although, that'll be the claims made), but because those aforementioned that do not have "handgun fit" problems, won't see any valid need to change.

The 9mmP people like the 9mmP, are comfortable with it, it IS a "useful" round, and not that many of them "move up" to .45.

The .40 S&W shooters do not see much improvement in moving from .40 to .45, and, as much as I prefer .45, I agree with this. The exact same reason, in the opposite direction, has me not seeing any need to own a .40 AND my beloved .45's.

The only realistic market for .45 GAP is the shooter who has hands too small for a double-stacked ".45 Auto frame", but wants a stagger-mag .45 Auto, and that just isn't a big marketplace. Many folks whose hands are not quite up to the big stagger-mag frames holding .45 Auto just go Single Stack and learn to reload after 7, or 8, or 9 rounds, instead of after 10 (or 15). The next thing most thinking consumers do is see if ammo is available, and how much shooting their toy will cost them.
This last fact alone keeps a lot of people I know shooting 9mmP instead of .45, and has, several shooters I know personally, stopped them from shooting .40 S&W in IDPA competition and switched either way, down to 9P or up to .45 Auto.


You obviously think the niche that wants it is several times larger than I think it is.
I think if the niche gets any smaller, it'll be microscopic.

IMO .416 Barrett is an incredible cartrige.
It's ONLY means of long-term survival will be millitary procurement for incredibly long-reach sniping (beyond .50BMG).
 
#28 ·
Draybo,

Why throw your money away on an obsolete round? I have both 9mm black tip and 45acp hydrashocs and chose them both because of the price. After doing extensive research on ALL the handgun rounds I chose these because of AVAILABILITY....
It can't be obsolete, it's practically brand new! ;)


Ah, I just realized, "Here to stay!" must have been a typo.

He meant to say "Here to stay unavailable!".

Yea, that makes sense.

Don't sweat it Draybo, I use a computer program at work that, whenever it wishes to, on printed copy it drops words out of text on the screen, sometimes 1 or 2, sometimes a whole line. Really a pain in the behind when it's aviation-related maintenance reccord forms it spits out, and the FAA is kinda picky about not having missing words and such causing "confusion".
Thus, I know what it's like. Probably coulda fixed it with the "edit" function tho. :)
 
#29 ·
This has been a really fun post and I appreciate all the feed back!! Nice to see a good sense of humor abound.

Maybe it's kinda like the Carcano I inherited. Have way more tied up in reloading for it than it's worth. I'm both a handgunner and a reloader (that's fortunate huh!? *chuckle*) and enjoy the pistol and like the cartridge. I was stoked on it when it first came out. Got a Model 37 on the way. I did take ya'lls advice and have been ordering brass and enough loaded rounds for more empties as time goes on. I will admit I won't shoot it in a match that doesn't allow brass retrieval that's for darn sure!

I am also surprised KAHR or Ruger hasn't built anything around it. It is pretty tough to sell John Q a pistol he HAS to reload for.

Draybo
 
#32 · (Edited)
I am also surprised KAHR or Ruger hasn't built anything around it. It is pretty tough to sell John Q a pistol he HAS to reload for.

Draybo
They would, if there was ANY ammount of sales enough to make it a profitable venture.

Springfield made a pistol or 2 chambered for it, operative term MADE, no longer offered.

The ONLY source for handgun, is Glock.
The ONLY source for a carbine is, well, nobody.
Very few sources of ammo, adn what is there, is high-dollar.

Draybo, did you perchance start THIS thread over on thefiringline?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409138

No real need to read it, it's 5 pages of the same thing here.

"Haters" noting the guns are all but unavailable, the ammo is all but unavailable, what IS available is costly.
The "lovers" claiming that all REAL shooters reload, so ammo availability is a non-issue (bull-crap), that it'd help the round if some other makers would just chamber guns in it (wishful thinking, Springfield did, for a while, apparently didn't sell enough to justify the production line), even one "loader" claiming 15-grains of powder goes in ACP's and he could make +P GAPs if he wished to cram 20 grains of something in them (Glockade is heavy in this one) to compete with .45 Auto +P's, etc, etc, etc.

GAP fans proclaiming all manner of love for their baby, while the detractors are looking at legitimate suply issues killing the weapon, and the cartrige, because nobody wants it, except the Glockade drinkers who want .45 GAP to survive.

Someone did an ammo search on ammoengine.com, came up with 18 loadings, BUT, only 7 manufacturers, all but one being Self-Defence loadings, only ONE "target/range" type loading, from Magtech.

An apropriate quote from the thread:
If you distill that down, there's 7 manufacturers there. Not that it matters all that much, but that's pretty small.

And it looks like you have mostly defensive loads and only one (Magtech) target load offering. Most of these are specialty ammo makers like Double Tap, Guardian, MagSafe and Corbon. Magtech is the only generic range ammo maker listed. There's no Winchester Whitebox, Remington, UMC, PMC, etc. listed.


Someone noted another corpse of a round, the .41 Action Express, dead, gone, try finding ammo to feed your D.E. in THAT.
Noted tho, again, .45 GAP actually had 2 manufacturers at it's height, .41 AE had Tanfoglio, Beretta, Jericho, Magnum Research and Taurus making the guns with conversion kits available for Colt, Glock and Browning pistols. That's 8, and it's dead and cold.

Not a good sign...................................................................................
 
#30 ·
Reading about the 45gap and 357sig, I really wanted a SIG 2022 in 357 but after looking at my normal online ammo suppliers, none of them carry either round. Looking at my local shops out of 4 shops, only 1 carried both and of course they were more than a $1 a round! Crazy...
 
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#34 ·
The .45 GAP's only chance I see of making it, is if L.E. on a wider scale starts using it. Glock themselves maybe the only one that could keep it around if they aggressively market it to L.E. That then may get the ball rolling and other gun makers may take note. And the general public sometimes then follows suit with wanting what the cops use. But Springfield throwing in the towel already is not a good sign.
That COULD save it, is IMO the only way TO save it, but, 4 or 5 police deptments does not a "wide market" make.

The wonderful thing about this country, if enough people want something, that niche WILL be filled, by someone, sooner or later.

The opposite is also true, if someone creates something, no matter how "good" or how much the creator adores it, if no-one else likes, needs, or wants it, it's not going to survive.

The GAP was "fix" to slim down/shrink a GLOCK grip, and give the shooter .45 Auto.

The other pistol makers with double-stack auto, use steel magazines, much thinner than Glock's plastic, thus, all other things being equal (frame plastic thickness), the actual volume of the grip is reduced, without shortening the cartrige .140"

While looking up the case length (lazy, I hit Wikipedia, since GAP is not in my Hornady #6 manual which is next to me), Wiki CLAIMS that Para Ordinance is offering a .45 GAP chambering.

I just looked at Para's offerings, Wiki is wrong on this one.
Para DOES offer a lot of handguns in .45 Auto tho. ;)

Thought for a minuite you might have had a seccond mfr, but, to no avail.
 
#33 ·
It's dead. We already had too many handgun rounds. And I speak as the proud owner of a pistol chambered in one that's been staggering along like a zombie since, oh, about 1960. If it wasn't for the old "shooting major" bullseye competitions and the Mexicans saying that 9mm and 45ACP were "military" rounds illegal for civilians my 38 Super Colt Commander would be out of luck.
 
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