Gunboards Forums banner

The Glock .45 G.A.P. is here to stay! (IMHO)

18K views 118 replies 22 participants last post by  Boris Bush 
The advise to stock up on .45 GAP ammunition now, along with brass, bullets, reloading supplies, is good IMHO. I've gotten it down to .22LR, 9mm, .38/.357, and .45 acp and try do do everything I need to with those. 45 GAP may be a good idea, but is it so much better than 9mm, .40, and .45 acp that it will last? The SA XD .45 in chopped form is fine I think, and .45 acp isn't going anywhere. The Glock is an exceptional handgun, they just don't fit me right and I prefer an M1911, P.35, XD grip and angle. Just my thoughts.....
 
45 GAP may be an excellent compromise and efficient round. Betamax had alot of benefits. It's a matter of commercial viability and appeal to market sufficient to sustain it. IMHO, it's not so beneficial to me over my .45 acps and 9mms to buy a weapon in that caliber. Without the pistol in .45 GAP I don't need the ammunition for it or magazines either.
 
I solved the Glock 21 / gripping a 2x4 / bad angle for me issue by buying a SA XD Service in .45 acp, not going to a .45 GAP. I like the plastic pistol and it's good to have with my M1911s (none of which eat GAP) I was impressed enough to then buy an XD Service 9mm and XD SC 9mm. .45 acp is extremely forgiving in loading it, and I've loaded them light enough to where they just cycle the slide on my Clark customized Colt series 70, to the point that they blaze 200 gr. jhp heat, with extra flash and blast effect. What benefit does a .45 GAP have over a .40 and .45 acp other than nominally, on paper? That's a sincere question, but I'm not the only guy asking it, hence the death throws of the GAP (IMHO).
 
Well Clyde, if the question AND answer causes marketing problems for the round then that aint good ;) I think if the only benefit is that it's a chopped .45 acp, that's a problem. A reason I like the .45 acp for reloading is there is alot of room to work with and put powder in. As you guys have noted here, good cartridges have died due to marketability. Didn't GAP really come out right before the "great ammunition crisis" that we're just coming out of? That probably didn't help.
 
I guess I'm a simpleton. In handguns I run .22LR/.22 mag, .38/.357, .45 acp, and 9mm. All those work fine for me. If I was hunting big stuff with them I reckon I'd have some .44 mags, but a .357 and a really hot .45 acp will take down a hog. But, I'm not a combat pistol afficienado, so I'm rather boring. BTW, I also like all the light fixtures in my house to take regular ole light bulbs or those crazy curly long lasting eco-friendly bulbs.

In short, I think many consumers of such products are like me. And as the .45 GAP is not perceived to be any real improvement over the .40 or .45 acp, and can't be loaded as hot, which is in plenty of packages I think are compact; and whereas I can load down a .45 acp to be chick friendly (as long as they keep their wrists stiff); and whereas my 9mm XD SC with 13 is my back pocket concealed pistol and I trust it plenty, well, I'm just not sold on the incremental improvements of the GAP to make me go out and buy one, particularly if the ammo dries up. I'm quite sure the GAP has alot of merit and don't doubt your specs. There just isn't enough merit there for simpleton me.
 
That is exactly how I feel about ACP and 40. Thanks for summing it up so well for me..
And that's fine. But if I were a betting man, and I am, I'd say the .45 acp (and the 9mm), which has been around since before 1911, and is probably more popular than ever, will be one of the last metallic pistol cartridges on Earth. That's because it is an exceptional round. The .40 is a pretty solid round too, though I have very little experience with it. Gaston Glock HAD to chamber his pistols in .45 acp to compete in the market with every other manufacturer who offers multiple handguns in that caliber. Not only did ole Gaston have to make his pistols in .45 acp, but he had to redesign the 21 grip to accomodate the demand for .45 acp in a sensible grip. A tribute to the .45 acp is how many makers are churning out M1911 clones today (almost 100 years later) and all are making money at it, obviously. While you may feel the way you do about the GAP, the market doesn't seem to.

I'm sure GAP is a nice round. But I wouldn't bet any money that it will outlast the .45 acp or .40. I don't see police departments dumping their 9mms, .40s, and .45 acp for the GAP. Do you know of any? That general acceptance is what it is going to take to keep the GAP from being a specialty collector curiousity, like the .41 AE, etc.
 
Civility. This is an objective discussion about gear, not our children.

Boris, thanks for that info on PDs and the GAP. Bear, I don't disagree re PDs, BUT we are really discussing acceptance and the market, not the merits of a cartridge. Hell, our military shot down the Brits' .280 cartridge of the 50s in favor of the 7.62 NATO, then we went to the 5.56 NATO, and guess what? We're finding the .280 was a great choice because we are sniffing in that direction. Regardless, sales of firearms in 7.62 and 5.56 are driven by military acceptance just as sales of civilian handguns are quite driven by "what the police use". The .45 acp and 9mm just happen to be very good cartridges, AND what the military and police use.

Most of the people here in this discussion, on both sides of the issue, are far and away more learned than the consumer. We are the minority and regardless of how good the 45 GAP is, if it isn't generally accepted and doesn't gets distribution, first through PDs, I don't think it will last as a major caliber. As for the Glock pistol, I no longer own one, now having XDs. My Glock 21 was as accurate as my Clark customized Series 70, and as reliable (at one third the cost and packing almost twice the capacity) but it felt terrible in my hand. However, the Glock is a great firearm, one of the top designs of all time IMHO. I should get a 19. My choice is personal due to "feel" and features subjective to me, accessories, spare parts, and familiarity (I like as few self defense firearms as possible so I know the go switches by instinct).
 
Shoot a real gun not made of plastic and recoil is a lot easier to contol. You guys amaze me, you insist on a light weight plastic gun the whine about recoil. What, you never heard of physics?
I primarily own M1911 and P.35 for .45 acp and 9mm, respectively, a number of examples of each. That's what I'm familar with and they are steel. My primary self defense pistol if I got in a bind is an XD SC 9mm from truck to office and an XD .45 Service at home (with a chopped Mossberg 590A1 with a Surefire in the corner). I don't notice much difference in recoil from M1911 to Glock to XD. Glocks may have a bit less perceived muzzle flip due to to the grip angle I reckon. I like "plastic" pistols for a number of reasons. Glocks and XDs are very real and outstanding weapons, with the Glock having long ago proved itself. Imitation is the highest form of flattery ;)
 
The only thing Glock has proven is that P.T.Barnum was right. :rolleyes:
When the Glock 21 came out I bought one. It proved to me that it was as or more accurate than my Clark customized Series 70 and as or more reliable at about 1/4 the cost. I like your post though because last night I was watching the Top 100 Greatest Hard Rock Songs on VH1 and that and your post make me feel like I'm a young guy again in the early 80s :) I can't respond any further Bear.
 
Accuracy is fine, until the damn thing shoots you (most likely) or someone else because of it's piss poor design. But you are just like the PC liberals, you made your choice and the facts of the matter are now irrelevant. Why do you tink the cops keep buying them? Because they won't admit they screwed up in the first place. I think you got screwed on your Clark, but then again I don't buy my custom guns, I build them.
Guns don't shoot people Bear, people shoot people. As for firearms, while my "standard" is the M1911/P.35 in auto pistols, I like to try other designs because IMHO there have been design improvements and advancements in firearms since 1911 and 1935. I make a choice and if it works for me I stick with it, and if it doesn't, I sell it to someone whom it works better for. That's why over the last 28 years in auto pistols I've had Glock 21, but sold it (didn't fit me right, great pistol though), Sig 226 (great pistol, but favored the P.35, Sig is better probably, but that's just me), Sig 220 (great pistol, favored the M1911), Glock 19 (great pistol, went back to P.35/BHP in 9mm, but will probably buy another G.19) and now XD Service .45, XD Service 9mm, and XD SC 9mm.

Never have sold an M1911 (except a Randall that was a lemon) or P.35, but not because they are superior, just because they work for me. I stay with 9mm and .45 in auto pistols because that is what my smgs eat and they eat alot. I've never been equated to a PC liberal, though I must be mellowing with age :thumbsup:

EDIT: BTW, I hope the GAP does stay. Looks like a good cartridge, but not sufficiently better for me than .45 acp (for the aforementioned reasons) to switch. As an aside, I may be a nutter, but I believe in pistol calibers that skill, familiarity, and shot placement are the first and most important criteria and anything after that is gravy. :thumbsup:
 
A poorly designed gun makes it easier for the stupid, careless and just don't give a damn people of the world to shoot themselves and and others and like it or not the Glock and it's NON-SAFETY system are doing than. But hey, believe whatever you want, but a positive mechanical safety on the Glock would immediately lower the inadvertent discharge numbers drastically. But don't blame me for the facts. They are the facts regardless of your Egyptian attitude, You know "in de nile.
Memorialized for posterity. :thumbsup:
 
"MOM" accuracy is fine if the target that presents itself is facing you, stationary, like a slowfire silouette target, and close. Aim small, miss small. I find that practicing on 1" adhesive dots on various targets at various ranges makes hitting larger things things much easier, even running and jumping things. The handguns that I would stake my life on are reliable and can do at least 2-4" groups at 25 yds if I do my part. I can't shoot "sub MOA" with a pistol at that distance anyway offhand so that mechanical capability is wasted on me.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top