[Plain Old Dave]

The Project: 91/30 maximized for CMP Vintage Military Rifle competition.

Parameters follow.


6.3.6 As-Issued Foreign Military Rifle
The rifle must be a rifle that was issued by the Armed Forces of a country other
than the U. S. and be in as-issued condition. All as-issued foreign military rifles
must be manually operated bolt-action or straight-pull rifles. Semi-automatic
or fully automatic rifles are not permitted.
(1) These firearms must be as issued by the foreign government, with a standard
stock and sights.
(2) Trigger pulls may not be less than 3.5 pounds.
(3) Rifles must conform to the weight and dimension specifications of the
standard issue service rifle. Weights may not be added to the rifle.
(4) Only Government Issue parts or commercial parts of the exact same
weight and dimensions may be used.
(5) Sights must be of the same types that were on rifles issued to regular
military personnel. Special purpose sights designed for sniping or target
practice are not permitted.
(6) Rifles that were issued with sharp-edged, inverted V (“barleycorn”) front
sights may be retrofi tted with fl at-topped post front sights of military type.
Retrofitted front sights may not have copper bead or colored aiming elements.
Retrofitted front sights may not be wider than 0.100”.
(7) Rifles that were issued with side-mounted front sling swivels may be retrofi
tted with sling swivels of military type (not quick detachable) that are
positioned in the 6 o’clock location, relative to its original sling swivel location
(may not be moved forward or rearward from that point). If the issue
swivel was narrower than 1 1/4” the retrofit swivel may be 1 ¼”. The
as-issued sling may be replaced with a standard U. S. military sling (Rule
6.9.1).
(8) Rifles may be accurized only by the careful assembly of standard parts.
(9) Rebarreling with a barrel of as-issued dimensions is permitted.
(10) Shims made of wood, fabric, paper, metal or other similar material, of
types that were originally installed by military arsenals in these rifles and
that are placed between the stock and the action, barrel or trigger assembly
are permitted.
(11) All as-issued rifles must be chambered for the cartridge for which they
were originally chambered.

Not much leeway, admittedly, but it IS an interesting project. One area I am going to get a ruling on is using a Finn bolt stop/sear or one modified Finn-style on a Soviet 91/30. Otherwise, floor's open. What are some areas where people have seen improvement than can be done within the above guidelines?

 

[gremlin1945]

xxxx

 

[TomBulls]

If shims of certain varieties are allowed, wouldn't it be possible to make custom-cut shims that can improve the bedding?

 

[samamara]

My Finn model 27 came with brass shims under the front receiver ring. So I would say yes. Frank

 

[Portholio]

it sounds like you can do all kinds of bedding as long as you use period correct methods - just about anything except modern Bondo& fiberglass resins, JB Weld & epoxies, etc.

It also sounds like you can swap parts to your hearts content, but you can't modify the parts. For a Garand you can swap gas cylinders and locks all day long, but supposedly peening them is against the John C Garand rules, according to the GCA mag this month. I would argue that, other than gunpowder itself, peening is the oldest gunsmithing trick there is.

FWIW, at the last shoot I went to, the only Mosin in a field of ~30, had the #5 best score. I hope you get good results too!

 

[gremlin]

Best of luck, at Quantico they won't let you shoot the Mosin

 

[Big commander]

Best of luck, at Quantico they won't let you shoot the Mosin

Because?

 

[Clyde]

Because?

Commie trash?

 

[USMCsean]

I think that's not true. I believe there was a member saying that they allow them now.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?260527-Finn-Mosin-Collector-Shooters-AWOL-today

 

[milprileb]

Yes , that member is me.

I have confirmed Twice that you can now shoot 762x54R and 762x39mm at Quantico, Virginia.

We have shoots all the time now. Our next "as issued military match is April 15.

Call me if you need assistance. Just send me a email and I will fwd my phone number.

All you need is your Mosin (or other military rifle), 5 rds for spotter, 30 for the course of fire,
your rifle, and $10 for the day. We have two courses of fire minimum per day. You don't need
all that gear the guys at Camp Perry bring. We shoot at 200 yds, NRA / CMP bull for 200 yds
and its a KD range. If you don' have a matt lay on, you can borrow mine. Same with my spotting
scope.

again: Quantico now authorizes 762x54R and 762x39mm to be shot at its ranges.

 

[db2044]

I don't see anything that would prohibit cleaning the bore. When I say cleaning, I mean "bare metal conditioning". WipeOut and PatchOut soaks along with Shooters Choice Copper Cleaner until the bore is "bare metal" clean down to original issue unfired spanky clean. Although some bores will benefit from a certain amount of fouling (shoots tighter after X rounds), "bare metal conditioning" is essential to accomplish the next step.

Tubb's Final Finish Solution polishing bullets. A full 50 rd run (10 shots @ of 5 different grits) absolutely does make a difference and performs as advertised. I swear by this product and "treatment" having done it to all my shooters (even the PSL-54C chrome lined bore!) as well as quite a few rifles for other people. Superior to "hand lapping", it does what the literature says it does and removes any imperfections in the all important "throat" area. Other than making the bore "bright", there is no way to tell the bore has been polished.

Again, following another thorough "bare metal conditioning" after the polishing bullets, treating the bore with MolyFusion does a lot.
Believe or not the claims of improved accuracy. I can't say for certain it does or does not help accuracy. What the permanent bonding to metal does accomplish is most significant reduction in the amount of fouling "crap no stick". Clean up time is greatly reduced and no copper accumulation worth copper cleaning. Also a superior rust and pitting preservative.

One of the most critical factors in accuracy is the condition of the crown. The slightest imperfection imparts yaw and pitch to the tail end of the bullet as it leaves the juncture where rifling ends.
Polishing the crown to mirror bright, removing any nicks and imperfections on the outer surfaces, is critical to accuracy. Lapping, with a brass ball lapping tool and compound, of the inner area where rifling meets crown, is the most important part of this treatment. I "lap" all my shooters and touch up now and then. To demonstrate how critical this is, I once did an "on the spot" quick lapping job on the range ( as I carry the tool and compound in my range box) for a guy having problems with a beat up M44. Noting that his crown was bit "rough" and his groups spready, it took about ten minutes to "lap" it. There was an immediate and significant improvement in accuracy!

You may not be able to substitute a custom trigger, like a Huber, but I see no prohibition on doing a good "tuneup" job on the stock parts. You can indeed make a Mosin trigger as smooth and light as warm butter with some careful polishing. Lubing mating parts with MolyFusion slicks them up as it is a super lubricant. Measurement of trigger pull with a gauge may be necessary as you can go under 3.5lb without much effort.

I also see nothing that would prohibit "mating" the bolt to the receiver. As Mosin receivers and bolts are an assortment of dissimilar parts, fit isn't always the best. "Mating", by cycling the bolt in the receiver coated with compound, you can eliminate all drag and accomplish silky smooth bolt operation. A "one finger" Mosin bolt can be accomplished.

Bedding and shimming can be a tedious job. The main objective is to eliminate any high spots putting pressure against the barrel as it heats up and expands. If you have any issues with "stringing" as it warms up, you have a high spot somewhere in the barrel channel. Shoot it hot enough and "burn marks" will be visible on the wood. A little light sanding will cure the problem. I had an M38 with repeatable "stringing". Careful inspection of the wood revealed a small knot that the lathe skipped over when cutting the barrel channel. Eliminating that one small hard spot entirely cured the "stringing" problem.

 

[Portholio]

Copper that was a dam good post. x2 on lapping the crown. Also agree a little polish and cold blue on the trigger parts makes a world of difference.

 

[Plain Old Dave]

IRT lapping the bore, I don't think any of the makers of the special bullets make .311s or .312s. Good info on the crown as well as mating the bolt. One real danger I see there is if any of the lapping compound gets in the locking areas. Wouldn't be hard to get a dangerous headspace issue there. Here's where I see this thread at now:

Bedding: Ensure barrel only contacts for @1.75" or so at muzzle
Trigger: musical parts looking for 4# pull
Action: Polish bolt body and light grease on bearing areas on guide rib as well as polish camming surfaces. Well-worn spring to ease bolt pressure. No need for hard primer strikes with handloads.
Headspace (my thought): Musical bolt heads for minimum headspace
Shimming: Will just see what happens once I go hot. If all is well, shoot as found.

 

[db2044]

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=96398
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=37202
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=36415

The above listed "Tutorials" still reside in the archives although the extensive pictures and diagrams vanished during a software update.
They cover trigger and spring tuning as well as bore conditioning.

Much can be accomplished to improve any Mosin or M39 with some careful work. You can make a very noticeable improvement in accuracy with bore "conditioning" and lapping.
Creep and slop in the trigger can be eliminated and it can be slicked out to a very light and crisp pull reducing shooter trigger pull issues.
I condemn no bore as a sewer pipe until it has been thoroughly "conditioned". I've seen/done a few that looked like crap, with no hope of redemption, that ended up turning in respectable groups after being done despite their obvious condition.

Once you have done all you can do with the rifle, it may be a question of ammo.
You didn't mention requirements for what you shoot out of it. Reloads acceptable?
If so, slugging the bore and getting a true diameter may help in finding the best bullets to fit for best accuracy.
See the running thread on Mosin accuracy with surplus. There are huge differences. What works best in one rifle may be totally opposite in another!

 

[Plain Old Dave]

CMP rules have allowed "any safe ammo" for a number of years. I will be using a light mainspring to reduce bolt effort as I am one of a tiny minority that will not fire corrosive ammo. No need for heavy strikes with W-W Large Rifle primers.

 

[db2044]

I believe one of the tutorials has the link to an article on "lightening" the firing pin spring. I don't recall offhand how many loops I lopped off but I lighten the spring and grind the trigger spring.
Spare springs and pins are available so little risk in experimenting. Taking a few loops off the spring does greatly reduce the force needed to cycle the bolt but I think the polishing process does more to allow it to move freely in the action with no drag. If you carefully examine the surfaces of the bolt that rub against the receiver, you often find very rough file marks as they were geared to speed of production rather than quality, by unskilled labor with crude hand tools. Polishing out those rough spots eliminates a lot of drag and resistance. Being able to pop it open and cycle a fresh round with one finger makes it a lot more pleasant to deal with.
http://www.davidtubb.com/speedlock-firing-pins-for-bolt-rifles
Tubb's Speedlock pin and spring set for Mauser was an awesome improvement in lock time. It made a world of difference in my balky K98. I had conversation with them a while back about making a similar set for Mosin and they were seriously considering it but I don't see one listed as of yet. That would be a great product if enough people requested them to make a set for Mosin.

 

[Plain Old Dave]

Only prob with the speedlock would be it would DQ the rifle for GSM work. Sounds interesting otherwise.

 

[truckjohn]

It seems like the biggest single thing you could do would be to start by trying to select the most accurate out of the box rifle that you can - and then go from there... My own personal complaint with most "Garden variety" $99.99 Mosins is that their barrels are all over the place.... Many are way oversize, many are really worn, and many seem to bell out at the muzzle.... Many are bent too.... If I was to do what you were talking about... I would probably start with either a Finn, or an Ex-sniper that I had already verified to have a minty, proper dimension bore... Then, handload up the most accurate ammo you can... Then, all you gotta do is to just shoot it, right? If you can hold 1 MOA over the course - you will take home the money.... Nothing to it Thanks

 

[samamara]

Get the Finn trigger and bolt stop spring. Will make a world of difference on trigger pull. I have a M44 carbine and trigger release was stricly by guess and by golly. never knew when it would go off. Stuck the trigger and bolt stop spring in and beautiful 4# pull. I bought three sets of the Finn triggers and bolt stop springs and do feel it was money well worth spending. Frank

 

[SA1911a1]

Seems to me all of the "tweaking" defeats the purpose of a period rifle shoot. Why not shoot them like Ivan had to shoot them?