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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Were all the TGF K98's made/reworked for East Germany? If I am not mistaken the TGF markings denoted Tschechoslowakische Gewehr-Fabrik, and was not only for the K98's, but the Brno .22 trainers and Vz24 bayonets also.

Were the K98's merely the post-war Brno made rifles marked as such for Germany, or are there rebuilds scrubbed and restamped also?

Always wanted a TGF K98. Saw one - Doc AV beat me to it.

I do see the TGF Vz24 bayonets a LOT though



 

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The tgf code is just a code- a carryover from the German occupation. If you look, they Czechs continued to use codes, like tgf, rid, she, etc.

These were made at Brno in the early 50's for someone- many I see were reworked with odd trigger guards added (short winter type guards). One gentleman told me these reworked ones were intended for the Danish police, but there is nothing to back that up. All I have seen use the Circle T proofs (typical 50 era Czech).

I still don't have one either- can't find a decent one. I can find other neat stuff to keep me busy though. :)
 

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Vulch that thinking on tgf is popular but does not have any provenance....the Czech codes are all close...as if they follow a pattern....tgf up or down one letter in the alphabet is she...she up or down one letter is rid...if you follow...tgf....t minus one letter is s...g plus one letter is h...f minus one letter is e....she....
 

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I agree with Farb with one exception. I believe the odd stamped triggerguard welded onto a milled magazine housing was the original triggerguard and not an addition at rework. I have a pair of tgf's. One was extensively reworked and has a renumbered WWII triggerguard. The one which appears to be non-reworked has a strange variant of lower band along with the special triggerguard mentioned by Farb.
 

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I agree with Farb with one exception. I believe the odd stamped triggerguard welded onto a milled magazine housing was the original triggerguard and not an addition at rework. I have a pair of tgf's. One was extensively reworked and has a renumbered WWII triggerguard. The one which appears to be non-reworked has a strange variant of lower band along with the special triggerguard mentioned by Farb.
I do agree with you, but sometimes you see those tgf50's with reworked bolts and such. That odd trigger guard is for sure a tgf50 thing.
 

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Is there any significance to a TG2 inside of a triangle? My Iraqi property marked K98 has TG2 in the grip behind the trigger guard.
TG2 was a distant relative of R2D2- you may know him from the movies. No really, I bet the TG2 is probably an EG rework mark?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I understand the code "sleuthing" mentioned above.

I just wonder though - PERHAPS TGF was the first (and really did mean Tschechoslowakische Gewehr-Fabrik) of these post-war Czech codes, and then Brno etc changed up and down as already mentioned. My theory for the day :D



 

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Where find here such info about Tschechische Gewehr fabrik?, its a fantasy, tgf was a code added to Zbrojovka Brno plant 1. The code system dont work on all in the mentioned system. best regards,Andy
 

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Hang on there Vulch, you are passing up a perfectly good chance to call names and get in a hissy fit.
Never let the chance to start a fight slip away, you might feel pissed off tomorrow and regret it...;)
 

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Better, much better...
 

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tgf (Lower case) real meaning...

Back in 1993, when I went to Germany for a Forensic Conference, afterwards, on my way to Italy, I detoured via the Czech Republic ( divided from Slovakia earlier that year) and visited Sellier & Bellot.

There I spoke with and was guided thru the various sections of the plant by an elderly engineer who had begun his career in late 1945 with S&B. He was now ('93) a sort of senior consultant and factory historian. I asked him about headstamp codes for ammo and small arms that the CSSR used in the 1950s, such as "tgf", "bxn" etc. He confirmed that the coding system was developed as a "Caeser Cypher" ( single letter shifts) from the original
"Tchekisches Gewehr Fabrik" mark used in late 1940s, early 1950s, for material being transferred to the DDR (East Germany). It seems that the Czechs were chosen as they had the only remaining and relatively undamaged Mauser Rifle factories in the Soviet Zones of occupation...the German factories were either destroyed by 1945, or been dismantled by the Russians and shipped East.
Despite the change in management, German technical and coding practices remained...and somebody (in the CSSR) decided in 1950 or so,, to enlarge the "letter code" system to include both Small Arms producers, and Ammo producers. The Ammo producers began with "a" ( aym), then "bxn" (Sellier & Bellot) and "czo"...whilst the gun factories began at "tgf" and went "she", "rid" etc. The Czechs were always mavericks in the Soviet Bloc, and managed to stave off any Soviet control of their coding system for the duration of Communism, and even kept the 7,62x39 out till 1957, and 7,62x54R until 1959.

Note that both the Rifle and Ammo codes become evident on material produced from about 1952 onwards(maybe 1951), at least on the ammo side; but I have pre-1950 marked "tgf" Model 1 .22 trainers, and have seen the occasional "tgf" bayonet with early dates.
Most of the tgf (Kar98k)rifles are 1950. The Vz52 rifles(Autos) where one sees the majority of the "later" factory marks ( Uhersky Brod, Strakonice, etc) of the "CZ" organisation, are all dated in the mid to late 1950s.

So, Vulch and I agree on something occasionally.(actually most of the time)

BTW, the "tgf" being a German language and not a Czech language indication is for the benefit of the(East) Germans, and not the Czechs...the Loyal Soldiers of the DDR had to know that their rifles were being made by their Comrades in Socialist Czechoslovakia, and were not the dregs of the much maligned III Reich...same applied to the "1001" coded MP/StG 44 magazines which CSSR supplied to the DDR, and the numerous assembled MP44s that came out of the Czech factories in the late 40s, both for the DDR and for export to "hot spots".

Since it is now 16 years since my visit to S&B ( seems only yesterday in my mind's eye, and although I have problems with STMemory, I can remember even insignificant details of that trip and visit.), the elderly engineer has probably passed on...he would now be in his late 80s or early 90s.

All the same, I don't have any documentary proof of what I have detailed, only the "Oral History" and a lot of deductions from viewing samples of both Rifles and Ammunition with the respective marks, and noting when these markings started.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.
 

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I believe this story is fantasy
-firstly K98K produced in late 40ies was destined for CS army and other export, not any sources speaks about DDR export, look col.Sada book
-secondly the codes tgf, and other were realised in november 1948, for hiding the location of arms production, similar to german war codes (book"Czechoslovak Pistol 1918-94" Skramoussky)
-thirdly DDR was raised as Republic in October 1949, as total dependendance of Soviet zone,it was same case with arms, the primary weapon of NVA was SKS45 and AK47 not K98k, i believe the Mauser was equipment of smaller police units or borderguards,but it was realised in middle of 50ies not earlier
-sorry but is no way to accept this theory only facts could determine the real info. best regards,Andy
 

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I want to clarify a previous comment I made- I got an email from a grumpy old bastard that hates me less than he hates the guys he works with (I think that means we are friends- :) ). Anyway, I got the info wrong on the tgf50's that were imported.

He has one of the nice ones with the walnut stock and goofy rear band and trigger guard. He bought it from "Leaver Arms" in Vancouver B.C. back in the late 60's- namely 67-68 era. He picked his out of the crate of them and all were like new. The importer/owner of Leaver Arms said these were Danish Police rifles- no need for an importer to hype that up. So it seems whoever they were originally built for, some ended up in Denmark in the service of the Danish Police. According to him, this was about the time semi-auto's were being issued en masse around the world (makes sense) and bolt actions were being taken out of service. That's where I got my info, and it's reliable as far as I am concerned.
 

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A few photos never hurt.

This is a Fed Ord Import rifle with an Iraqi "JEEM" property mark
I like that one! That particular one was made for the Czech military, as it has the Czech crossed swords with the date (or part of it). Very cool...then sold to Iraq.
 
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