[Pukka Bundook]

Morning Gents,

Can anyone fill me in on the target sizes for all ranges of the Simo Hayha Sniper course?
I gather first stage is 20 cm at 175 M.
The other target dimesions I do not know.

Thanks in advance for any information,

Richard.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Gents,
I appear quite gifted at asking questions to which no-one has answers!

Thank you for looking and all the best,
Richard.

 

[Ruprecht]

Richard: Are you getting the course design from the Saarelainen book ("The White Sniper....")? It mentions the target size for stage 1 but not the remainder although on a sketch map (pg 131) it appears to show a common target for the remainder- a sort of heads and shoulders design. Later in the book the author mentions modern Finnish Sniper training practices and use of 15cm targets at 0-300m and 30-35cm at 300m+. You'll likely have no trouble replicating the snow and cold temperatures! If you have a Simo Hayha tribute contest be sure not to let RangeRover use his PU- way too accurate.

Bill

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you for your reply, my old pal!

Yes, I saw those targets mentioned, but was thinking they were for the present course maybe, and was not sure they were used on the course in question.
What also threw me Mr B, is that a target of 0.4 x 0.5 Metres is mentioned . (400 metres) along with the probability percentages for hits for good and indifferent shots.
The 0.4 x 0.5 m Sounds like it would be closer to a upper torso size, than the 30-35 cm target.

Yes, we will hold this shoot, (when we get it all figured!)and expect you and your"new" to you rifle! If Range-Rover gets out of hand , we will spray -paint his lenses. (And his 'scope's!)

Thank you again,

Richard.

 

[CH]

Here are two homemade Finnish tradcon field targets, chest figure and head figure, compared to modern 03 field target. I'm postive these were used at the Viipuri Civil Guard district as well.

 

[CH]

Here are the dimensions of those targets. A picture from a book "What Is Shooting?", published in 1942.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you So Much, CH!!!
This is perfect.
So kind of you to attach the targets and dimensions.
Going by the diagrams of the sniper course in question, we can see clearly which of the targets were used, And now, Thanks to You, we have the exact sizes.
Thank you, and also for your time!
I will keep you posted on the shoot, including results, even if they are not good!

Very best regards,
Richard.

 

[CH]

No problem. If you plan to do regular 300m slow fire also I'd like to add that instead of using the international 300 metre rifle target the Civil Guard used so called "chest ring target", seen in Figure 15. above. Size of the ringing is exactly the same as that of the international target, only the black dot looks like a man's chest.

A while back I found a report of CG shooting championships held by the Kainuu CG district on September 8, 1928. A young guardsman named J. Jörgensen from Kuopio district was reported to shoot 274 points with 30 rounds in prone position. At the time it became the new Finnish military rifle record, even more so as he was using a regular Russian m/91! Extremely hard to pass, even today.

Since he was using VPT 3‴ D bullets, apparently D—27, his record was promoted by VPT who used a picture of Jörgensen's target in their advertisement.

Here's the man himself. A picture taken during the competition. The thin guy in the middle is Jörgensen. One on the left is Einari Oksa, a future world champion.

 

[Leon]

Here are the dimensions of those targets. A picture from a book "What Is Shooting?", published in 1942.

Are these targets still available? There are a number of M39 and M28/30 shooters in my club, and they would like to hold a competition with the proper Finnish targets.

 

[Mangrove]

Here's a detail from a Civil Guard photograph I digitised showing the actual setup for range shooting. I also have copies of the original target blueprints somewhere.

 

[CH]

Are these targets still available? There are a number of M39 and M28/30 shooters in my club, and they would like to hold a competition with the proper Finnish targets.

Years a back a sort of hybrid target was sold by North Kymenlaakso Arms Historic Club. I think I purchased about 40 targets back then. Haven't seen them for sale quite a while and they're not a faithful replica of the original.

Would people near you be able to draw and print those targets? These are fairly simple figures.

 

[JTV]

Are these targets still available? There are a number of M39 and M28/30 shooters in my club, and they would like to hold a competition with the proper Finnish targets.

Those would be proper HISTORICAL Finnish targets. As far I know the originals have not been manufactured for a very long time - possibly not since 1940's. There have been some more recent targets, which are probably based to these, but they have clear differences to originals and are not commonly available either. Nowadays the commonly used cartboard targets used by Finnish military are part of the target family represented by 03 target in CH's photos.

It would also be worth noting that the original targets were not black-and-white. Few years back I happened to find couple of original "päärengastaulu" (~"head ring target") for 25 meters being sold in Finnish online auction and bought them, so attached is scan showing what it looks like. Markings (in both Finnish and Swedish) top corners indicate that it was printed for GHQ of Civil Guard and target type, while text in lower corners is ban for reprinting the target.

Jarkko

 

[Pukka Bundook]

This is all Fantastic information, Gentlemen! Thanks for all the above posts.

CH,
All I can say is Wow... Thank you! There is not one round on J Jorgensen's target that would not be really bad if he was shooting at you.

No time to reply in depth at present. More later but heartfelt Thanks!!

Richard.

 

[Alpino"]

THANK YOU!
CH
Mangrove
Jarkko

 

[RangeRover]

I like how this is shaping up! Let me add my thanks for the information shared about these targets. A great community here.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Yes, R-R, Great community.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the information given so readily. To me it is very exciting to be able to use the original targets.
Without your help CH, Mangrove ,& Jarrko, it would not be possible!

Forever indebted to you,

Richard.

 

[CH]

Now that JTV mentioned miniature targets, maybe they could offer temporary solution? Here are two original Sk.Y 1/6 sized "head ring" miniatures, apparently intended for 50m smallbore rifle training. I didn't want to shoot the originals so I scanned one of them and cleaned background a bit, for better printing result. The scanned image should be scaled correctly so if you print it as is, you should have a decent copy of a 1/6 miniature target. That is, 1-ring should be 16.66...cm. I found rings of the original target to be slightly oval though!

Here is also an alternative Photoshopped version which tries to replicate the original 300m "chest ring" target. I believe resolution is not high enough to make it 6x larger version for 300m shooting but maybe someone with large printer could try to supersize and print it anyway? Until Mangrove finds 100cm sized blueprints from archives...

 

[CH]

Damn it, my image host service alters the image measurements, making them more or less useless. Can post correct ones via email though.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

CH,
I'll send you a PM.
Many thanks.

R.

 

[Leon]

CH,
I'll send you a PM.
Many thanks.

R.

Please send me a copy by e-mail too.