Swedish Mausers with Elm Wood - Photo Links and Discussion

Carcano · Sep 12, 2007

Carcano · Sep 13, 2007

Elm and other stockwoods

I am adding a rather interesting discussion on the elm stocks and other Swedish stockwoods:

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swede
Moderator
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 5:41:29 PM
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ELM stocks were used in 1915 , 1916 & 1917 , so far as we know to date . You could also find a replacement ELM stock on any earlier dated rifle with matching numbers . In those 3 years , you will also find French walnut , beech , American black walnut , maple , mahogany & possibly others that are unknown at this time .

If you have a real ELM stock , there should be no problem seeing & feeling the differance in the 2 types . ELM has a course grain with alternating light & dark markings . The dark markngs are porous compared to the light markings . Most ELM stocks have a fairly straight grain , but there are others with fancy figuring in the grain . Some beech stocks have these fancy markings , but it is smooth , not course like ELM . Most beech stocks have some flaming somewhere on the stock . Mostly on the curved edges , but they can be anywhere . The flaming is like small light colored cresent shaped markings in a row of differant lengths from one stock to another as well as differant sizes . Some beech have NO flaming . ELM has no flaming.

Dutchman
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 5:49:05 PM
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1: were stocks other than elm made in 1916?

Maple, walnut, mahogany. One of the primary goals of my m/96 rifle survey that began in 1998 was to identify stockwoods used during 1915-17 and in what serial number clusters. The problem, as it turned out, is that not many rifle owners can always tell maple from beech, or elm from beech, or sapwood walnut from beech. This is why I strove to attain as many photo examples as I could to help identify the many stockwoods used by Sweden. It will be an ongoing survey, hopefully, long after I depart this earth as its a fascinating area of study.

2: were elm stocks noted in any years other than the 15-16- year models?

1915-16-17 only _however_ there have been a few rifles show up with mis-match elm stocks outside these dates just as the mahogany stock is on a 1910 barreled action.

3: I wonder if any beech stock were used in that time?

I can't say for sure that beech wasn't used during the 1915-17 period or after but I suspect it was after.

Elm and beech are so different I'm surprised you're having trouble telling them apart. Elm is a coarse grain wood, nearly unsuitable as a stockwood, at least in the grade used by Sweden. There are certainly differences in the range of elm stocks from fairly plain and straight to quite fancy as two of my rifles are. I'd just suggest that the longer you spend with elm the more familiar it becomes and the more attached you'll become to it.

swede
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 7:00:32 PM
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I missed your mistake in using birch in the title . There are no known Swedish birch stocks as of todays date . Birch is not the same as beech !!!!

Dutchman
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 8:41:32 PM
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Ha! Me, too. The eyes went right past it.

TE53
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 9:07:10 PM
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I have beech examples from 1916 and 1917. French walnut was used to some extent in 1916 also. I haven't seen American black walnut in 1916, but since I have examples from 1915 and 1917, it seems likely to have been used through the 1915-1917 period.

I haven't seen elm in use outside of 1915-1916, except as noted as a replacement stock. The elm stocks with irregular grain would seem to be most likely subject to undesirable warping. Elm is not of much value as a cabinet wood for this reason.

mauserdoc
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 01:14:05 AM
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Thanks for all the feed-back--my Faux Pas on the birch business. Don't know how in the heck I came up with that one. Anyways, the pointers will be most helpful. I know it seems like a dumb question, but sometimes the brain starts to play tricks when I look at some of these for too long.

I wonder what the deal was during those years that different things were tried for stock; ? WWI?

A somewhat off topic question of minutae had to do with earlier stocks... My understanding is that the earliest stocks in the 1898 -1900 era were walnut-- I have not seen one that isn't. Many are dark in appearance--However, I just purchased a beautiful one from Swedejohn. The serial number is 8xxx. It a light almost blond stock that is lighter than many of my Obies. Would this likely represent French Walnut? Finally, I have been looking for an OLD 96 stock with tiger stripes; I have tigers from 1904, 1908, 1911, 1915. I Purchased another tiger stock just yesterday, but I think it is in a higher number range. Purchased one last week that is, again, in a higher number range. It is clear why I haven't seen a tiger from the 20s, 30s, and 40s; However, I am still looking for one that came from the first 3 years--What I am really interested in is whether anyone has a stock that looks like one of the beautiful chilean obie or lowe built rifles that are rather plentiful; I wonder if the wood for obies came from the same source as that for CGs of the same era? If anyone has a picture of a tigered Obie, I'd sure love to see it. Although off topic, I would say that the wood on many of the old chileans is some of the nicest I have seen. Wondered if the german connection might feed over into obies.

swede
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 01:53:26 AM
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The supply of French walnut was cut off during WW1 which lead to the use of other wood types . Some existing supplies of French walnut were used through out production 1898-1925 . I have a mint 1927 dated M-96 with a mint French walnut stock which is very light in color . French walnut was considered the wood of choice on rifle stocks in Europe for many years .

Tiger stripped stocks are actually an inferior piece of wood that was created by the wind blowing trees back & forth during sub-freezing temperatures . A straight grain piece of French walnut was considered the best piece of wood for military stocks , but no wood was waisted .

Swedeman
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 08:22:44 AM
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Walnut was used exclusively up through 1914. Various wood types, were used in 1915 - 1917, including walnut, elm, beech, maple, mahogany, etc., and beech was used almost exclusively after 1917. I have a M38 (M96/38) dated 1899 with an elm stock ... obviously a replacement stock.

Tiger walnut stocks can be found in any year walnut was used (but I suppose there may be examples of other wood types with tiger stripes ... I haven't seen any, though, other than maybe maple).

I have tigers from the early years, including Oberndorfs. Here is one (1900 Obie):

Swedeman

P.S.: Yes, the previous owner (MauserCrazy) had re-finished it ... but it was so pretty I could not refuse it at the time.
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Edited by - Swedeman on 08/30/2006 08:25:15 AM

Swedeman
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 08:37:15 AM
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Here is my previous post on the subject:
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=166013&SearchTerms=tiger

capnduane
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 10:51:27 AM
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One of my 1916 M94/14 carbines, I had thought was elm. Now I am having second thoughts. I'm thinking walnut? Stock is original to carbine. The handguard is a beech replacement. The stock has no flaming like beech. What do you all think?
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/capnduane/200683010420_macroshots 046.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/capnduane/2006830104436_macroshots 059.jpg
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Swedeman
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 11:02:17 AM
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It looks like straight-grained elm. Show a photo of the underside of the stock where the cut of the wood goes at a different angle with the grain ... it will probably be more figured.

capnduane
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 3:04:32 PM
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The base ball bat look, Yup, it's got it at the bottom of the butt. When I first saw this carbine, I thought elm, but the color threw me.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/capnduane/200683015143_macroshots 062.jpg
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MP78
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 6:48:46 PM
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Swedeman,
It's really hard to imagine that something so pretty could be an inferior stock wood. I know from an accuracy standpoint long straight grains that won't warp under adverse conditions is desired but from a collector standpoint I would have bought that rifle too...Jim

swede
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 7:15:37 PM
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I have only stated a fact about tiger striped stocks . Also called " fiddleback ". I would have bought that one as well .

As for Capnduane's carbine stock , I cannot say for sure what type of wood it is . The photos do not identify the wood type for me . Just as a guess , I would say it is most likely French walnut , not " ELM " . I may have a differant opinion if it were in my hands . I do not see the porous dark markings of ELM . Run your fingers across the grain of the buttstock . Is it smooth or course like corn rows , but not really deep grooves ?

Posted - 08/30/2006 : 7:42:48 PM
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Swede, the grain is smooth. When I have it in hand, it says Walnut to me........The color varies from a reddish brown to a golden hue. The area up in front of the finger grooves on forend definatly looks like walnut. I think the pronounced grain and the swirls are what confused me. Whatever, its my favorite carbine!

swede
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 8:02:47 PM
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Do you have an ELM stock to compare it to ? With a smooth stock , I agree it is French walnut . Nice looking wood no matter what the type .

capnduane
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 8:27:08 PM
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Yes, I have a M48 Yugo mauser in a elm stock, and it is ROUGH to the touch.

TE53
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 8:56:20 PM
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capnduane,
You have a walnut stock there. Whether french walnut or American Black Walnut is the question. If the barrel channel is clean and a lighter color, it's probably french.

I don't think the Swedes would use wood with that knot in it unless supplies were tight.

mauserdoc,
The sources for european walnut for all manufacturers would likely be the same around the turn of the century. The tiger striped wood isn't necessarily inferior for stocks, otherwise it wouldn't be used in the finest custom rifles. It is, however, harder to machine due to the irregular grain.

I have seen the striping in various walnuts and maples, as previously mentioned, plus oaks, beech and some softwoods. The striping is usually found at the base of the trunk and the major (large) branches. The dark streaks sometimes seen in walnut are usually caused by various minerals absorbed by the tree.

Carcano · Sep 13, 2007

Another elm-stocked rifle

It was UK Swede who "bought a m/96 from a Carl Gustaf, the receiver of which is dated 1916. Serial number is 381894, which has a prefix that looks like HK, but I can't be sure on that. All parts carry the same last three numbers."

On 18th November 2006, he added the appended pictures.

Carcano · Sep 15, 2007

Karbin 94/14 with elm stock

Just experimenting with a different way of posting... from the long old "m/94 Carbine Photos thread" on page 7:
http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37577
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mag318
Posted - 07/09/2004 : 6:59:59 PM
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Here's my latest 94/14 and my first with an elm stock. John 
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Swedish Mausers with Elm Wood - Photo Links and Discussion

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