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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Went out to shoot my 1857 for the first time. Only range available made the distance around 84 meter. Didnt have any minie bullets at hand so used patch and roundball. To hit target needed to aim one meter below so had an orange airpistol? target for help.
Out of my last 10 consecutive shots did eight stay inside the black in the pistoltarget.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Very cool. Snow I see. Its 70 F (22C) here.
Thanks Dana! A sturdy and great rifle. Next time will test minie bullets at well. Tomorrow taking my original Zouave. 58 out. Have minie bullets ready for that one 😉. But when competing still using an original Enfield P. 53 in cal.. 577.
 

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Thanks Dana! A sturdy and great rifle. Next time will test minie bullets at well. Tomorrow taking my original Zouave. 58 out. Have minie bullets ready for that one 😉. But when competing still using an original Enfield P. 53 in cal.. 577.
So, three years later the Swedes got the M/60 Wrede rifle, yes?

Incidentally, you once helped me some years ago discover the sorts of Jaeger rifles my ancestor in Vaesterbotten would have used during his military service... I've since located images and some information about these arms. Tack tack!

I do skirmishing with a two-band M1841 Pederssippi or Mississoli copy/ reproduction in .58, but the barrel fell against my kitchen floor and the front sight got knocked out, so I need to replace it. In the meantime, I'm using a "wadcutter" 535-gr .685". Minie/Burton bullet lubed with 50/50 mutton tallow + beeswax lube over 60gr of FFFg powder in an original 1851-mfr. Springfield Model 1842 that was rifled and sighted. I have a smooth-bore barrel too, which I use for smooth-bore shooting.

Not too long ago, I was also shooting smooth-bore with a Pedersoli Mle. 1777 Corrige An IX .69 flinltock musket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
View attachment 3926281 View attachment 3926281 View attachment 3926281
So, three years later the Swedes got the M/60 Wrede rifle, yes?

Incidentally, you once helped me some years ago discover the sorts of Jaeger rifles my ancestor in Vaesterbotten would have used during his military service... I've since located images and some information about these arms. Tack tack!

I do skirmishing with a two-band M1841 Pederssippi or Mississoli copy/ reproduction in .58, but the barrel fell against my kitchen floor and the front sight got knocked out, so I need to replace it. In the meantime, I'm using a "wadcutter" 535-gr .685". Minie/Burton bullet lubed with 50/50 mutton tallow + beeswax lube over 60gr of FFFg powder in an original 1851-mfr. Springfield Model 1842 that was rifled and sighted. I have a smooth-bore barrel too, which I use for smooth-bore shooting.

Not too long ago, I was also shooting smooth-bore with a Pedersoli Mle. 1777 Corrige An IX .69 flinltock musket.
Sounds like a lot of fun Dave! Yes, m/1860 was the last muzzloaded swedish military rifle. The almost identical wredska geväret (Wrede) for volunteer sharpshooters movement came the same time. Can describe them another time... But here two pics of a wrede...
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Where does this model fall in relation to the others mentioned? View attachment 3926443 View attachment 3926444
That is an impressive musket! Very much Swedish and that particular one produced 1852 in Huskvarna. Its the first Swedish minie rifle. We took the last smoothbored percussionmusket (m/1845) and rifled it 1854. So it became the infantryrifle m/1845-54!! Total length 146 cm, weight 4,75 kg and caliber 18,55 mm.
Easy to distinguish from m/1845 because of the high brass rearsight and different end of ramrod (if you cant feel the four riflings in the barrel).
This m/1845-54 a little bit more difficult to get tight groups when shooting minie bullets. Even so remember that 2 out of 4 members in the Swedish "skirmish team" used this model at the MLAIC World Champs in Camp Perry 1992. It was a special event with fastshooting with paperpatched bullets at 50 yards during 5 minutes and dressed in old uniforms. Swedish team got the bronzemedal only beaten by the US and Canadian teams. Myself and a friend instead used the original Enfield P. 53. Those were the days!!
 

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What is the caliber, respectively, of the M1857 and the M1860 Wrede? Are they the same? The 1857 looks very like a French rifle of the same year, and the Wrede looks more like an Enfield. Can we see a photo of the 1857 rear sights and sideplate?

Did Sweden ever use a pillar breech (system a tige/Thouvenin)?

It’s really interesting to see the transition betweeen smoothbore flintlock muskets and rifled percussion minie style, but also maddeningly difficult to find clear information on the different models and what was changed, when.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What is the caliber, respectively, of the M1857 and the M1860 Wrede? Are they the same? The 1857 looks very like a French rifle of the same year, and the Wrede looks more like an Enfield. Can we see a photo of the 1857 rear sights and sideplate?

Did Sweden ever use a pillar breech (system a tige/Thouvenin)?

It’s really interesting to see the transition betweeen smoothbore flintlock muskets and rifled percussion minie style, but also maddeningly difficult to find clear information on the different models and what was changed, when.
Caliber for m/1855, m/1856 and m/1857 (those rifles basically the same model) are 15,5 mm while m/1860 has 12,17 mm.
All 5000 rifles of m/1855 came from Malherbe in Liege and has walnut stocks. M/1856, besides minor stuff, identical with m/1855 but produced in Sweden and has birch stock. M/1857 almost as m/1856 but is 10 cm longer because of the longer barrel.
Few pillar breech rifles used in Sweden. 600 of m/1840-48 studsare produced with pillar breech but only for sharpshooters. Its a Very sturdy and massive one in caliber 19 mm and total weight 6,11 kg! Also exist infantryrifle m/1848 with pillar breech. Caliber 19 mm but only 4,25 kg in weight and very impopular because of heavy recoil. Have had two of those but never shot them. They were actally produced from flintlockrifle m/1815, rifled and shortened barrel.
Will post some pics in next post.... 😉.
 

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Sorry I got these out of order...
Pictures are from the army museum catalog.
m/1840-48 tappstudsare, or jaeger rifle with a back-action percussion lock used by the sharpshooters of the Vaesterbotten regiment like one of my 3xgreat-grandfathers after 1849.

The rifle with the brass barrel bands and dog-lock-style catch with the darker stock is this rifle's predecessor, in 1846, the sharpshooters would have used m/1815-20 studsare or rifles like this one here. These were originally flintlocks, but later many were converted to percussion caplocks. DigitaltMuseum digitaltmuseum.se Armemuseum
 

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What is the caliber, respectively, of the M1857 and the M1860 Wrede? Are they the same? The 1857 looks very like a French rifle of the same year, and the Wrede looks more like an Enfield. Can we see a photo of the 1857 rear sights and sideplate?

Did Sweden ever use a pillar breech (system a tige/Thouvenin)?

It’s really interesting to see the transition betweeen smoothbore flintlock muskets and rifled percussion minie style, but also maddeningly difficult to find clear information on the different models and what was changed, when.
Yes, see above 1840-1848 tappstudsare, and other replies to your query. Before the Thouvenin pillar breech, it was plain patched ball. The flintlock studsare had a rather fearsome double-edged sword bayonet too... like a 'roided up Baker rifle sword bayonet...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dont understand why those british and french fellows had to copy our swedish weapon models all the time.... 😆!?
Well, anyhow, here some more pics. The rearsight on m/1857 and m/1860 practically the same. Dont have my m/1857 sight "opened" like many of the rifles (together with m/1860) were ordered not to be. Therefore showing drawing and also a photo from a m/1860 with rearsight "opened".
In last photo is my m/1857 resting on a Sapmi "härna" that I made myself from a reindeer forehead.....
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yes, see above 1840-1848 tappstudsare, and other replies to your query. Before the Thouvenin pillar breech, it was plain patched ball. The flintlock studsare had a rather fearsome double-edged sword bayonet too... like a 'roided up Baker rifle sword bayonet...
This is a m/1840-48 that, as a civilian owned rifle, lost its pillar again. Also equipped with older m/1840-styled rear sight and decorative carvings at the stock. I therefore used it with patch and roundball. Fun to shoot with!!
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
View attachment 3926582
View attachment 3926584 View attachment 3926585
View attachment 3926587

Sorry I got these out of order...
Pictures are from the army museum catalog.
m/1840-48 tappstudsare, or jaeger rifle with a back-action percussion lock used by the sharpshooters of the Vaesterbotten regiment like one of my 3xgreat-grandfathers after 1849.

The rifle with the brass barrel bands and dog-lock-style catch with the darker stock is this rifle's predecessor, in 1846, the sharpshooters would have used m/1815-20 studsare or rifles like this one here. These were originally flintlocks, but later many were converted to percussion caplocks. DigitaltMuseum digitaltmuseum.se Armemuseum
Here is the m/1815-20 fotjägarstudsare that is awesome to shoot. Even had it and competed with it at MLAIC European Champs in Valencia, Spain 2009.
Did manage to irritate some british team members when I told them this is a better weapon than theirs beloved Baker.... But I belive I am actually right on that statement. Pictures from a local swedish match some years ago. Time to take that little beast to the range soon again!
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Dont understand why those british and french fellows had to copy our swedish weapon models all the time.... 😆!?
Well, anyhow, here some more pics. The rearsight on m/1857 and m/1860 practically the same. Dont have my m/1857 sight "opened" like many of the rifles (together with m/1860) were ordered not to be. Therefore showing drawing and also a photo from a m/1860 with rearsight "opened".
In last photo is my m/1857 resting on a Sapmi "härna" that I made myself from a reindeer forehead..... View attachment 3926600 View attachment 3926601 View attachment 3926602 View attachment 3926603 View attachment 3926604 View attachment 3926605 View attachment 3926606
Regarding the rear sight in pic #2: The exaggerated "U" notch got my attention. So my idea of filing the rear sight notch from a semicircle to a "U" was not original. Attached pic shows my M96 with the JF sikte. The sight had a "V" notch originally, but it was intended to be used with the traditional barley corn front side. It does not go with the straight-sided front sight blade, so I filed it to form a "U". At first I was worried that I went too far, but at the range it proved to be very effective. Great minds think alike!
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Regarding the rear sight in pic #2: The exaggerated "U" notch got my attention. So my idea of filing the rear sight notch from a semicircle to a "U" was not original. Attached pic shows my M96 with the JF sikte. The sight had a "V" notch originally, but it was intended to be used with the traditional barley corn front side. It does not go with the straight-sided front sight blade, so I filed it to form a "U". At first I was worried that I went too far, but at the range it proved to be very effective. Great minds think alike!
View attachment 3926676
See, proves also that you must keep closer attention to the much older swedish military rifles than those mausers 😆!!
 

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For lack of a better word--at least in English?--is the muzzle crown of the m/1815-20 fotjaegerstudsare "coned" to allow the patched ball to be rammed down? I know that nowadays we all use short starters and so on, but historically, a little mallet and a heavy rammer seemed more typical? Just curious. I not the rifling grooves look much wider than on the m/1840-1848.

One of my shirt-tail relatives in the "old country" who is an avid hunter told me that the pre-spitzer 6.5x55mm cartridge is still preferred by many for hunting the Swedish "elk" pictured on the stock carving of your 19mm m/1840-1848.

With only 600 of those built you say? That has to be a rather rare rifle, no?

As for the Baker rifle: There is considerable interest in Texas about the Baker because it was used by some Mexican "cazadores" or "Jaegers" in the Texas Revolution and after. It's the weapon that killed Ben Milam during the storming of Bexar in December 1835. As far as I can tell, "Brother Jonathan" taught the Brits that the rifle-armed skirmisher could be mighty useful in an armed conflict, and so by the Napoleonic Wars, the British decided to have skirmishers and rifle regiments of their own... My understanding is that the rate of twist on the Baker is one turn in 120-inches?! Practically straight! I have read that controlling the fouling almost seems to have been the primary goal... The Norwegian champion Oyvind Flatnes has remarked that the initial Jaeger rifles of the Danish-Norwegian army had a rather fast rate of twist, unusual for a patched round ball shooter, no?

Thank you for the pictures. These are really great. Honestly, some of these would make great calendar images or even gift cards--ha!
Tack sa mycket--tack tack!
Dave C.
 
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