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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thanks for the responses and as promised here is an updated list. Keep your eyes open and we can fill in more of the gaps.

With the numbers of Savage #4s turning up at shows in the US perhaps it is time to try to refine some of the serial number ranges. I know, as an author, that rifles are not completed in strict numerical order but perhaps we can narrow down the ranges. Here is what I have seen so far and picked up from another forum. All are marked US PROPERTY unless noted. Note: we have an overlap between 1943 dated and no date rifles, need more observations in the 51Cxxxx to 60Cxxxx range. Be sure that the year is not scrubbed off.

One Savage #4 MKI, serial number 17C5233, 1942 date, has turned up. It is a confirmed MKI not a MKI*. Does anyone else have a MKI with a serial number higher than 13C2752. Wonder if Savage was using up some surplus receivers held back as parts? Or?

I have added some serial number observations about Savage snipers and unfinished snipers.

0C1 - 1941 MKI lowest # 1941 date
0C2804 - 1941 MKI highest # 1941 date

0C3870 - 1942 MKI lowest # 1942 date
13C2752 - 1942 MKI highest MKI # 1942 date

13C2845 - 1942 MKI* lowest MKI* # 1942 date
36C1916 - 1942 MKI* highest MKI* # 1942 date

38C2632 - 1943 lowest MKI* # 1943 date
60C7797 - 1943 highest MKI* # 1943 date

51C7693 - no date lowest MKI* # with no date
0C63110 - no date highest MKI* # with no date

OC1 was converted to a sniper and is shown in Skennerton's book.

It appears that 3,000+ rifles were serial numbered in 1941 but according to Skennerton only 1,325 were completed (accepted?)

It appears that around 132,800 MKIs were made.

Need rifles in the following serial # ranges to further narrow the gaps.

0C28xx to 0C38xx for 1941 - 42 changeover.

13C27xx to 13C28xx for MKI - MKI* change over. Success! We now have a gap of only 93 at the change over point!

36C19xx to 38C26xx for 1942 - 43 changeover.

51Cxxxx to 60Cxxxx for changeover to no date.

0Cxxxxx - any serial number with 5 digits following the C ie:- 0C30228

Lend Lease legislation was passed 11 March 1941 while the first Savage(0C1?) was finished 22 July 1941 so it appears that all Savages were marked US PROPERTY. Some had US PROPERTY and other marks scrubbed when they went into service. The one millionth Savage was presented to Brig. General Guy Drewry 18 May 1944. The last Savage was produced 22 June 1944.

All Savages with 5 digits after the C were made in 1944, probably between sometime in April and end of production in June.

Savage snipers or unfinished snipers(mount bases only, no "T" stamped, may have cheekpiece.)

1941 dated rifles - 10 noted, 3 are complete snipers with "T" markings and scope numbers on stock, 6 have the bases installed, 1 is a standard rifle.

1942 dated rifles - 3 MKIs in the 0C3xxx to 0C5xxx range have the bases installed. 9 MKI*s in the 13Cxxxx to 15Cxxxx have the bases installed.

Thanks.

Gene
Edited by - GeneM on 08/05/2005 6:31:01 PM
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
theleftboot

My 1942 Savage No.4 MK I (not I*) is 5C80XX. Yes, it does have "U.S. Property" on it.

South African issued. WIll post pics sometime.

BTW- The first several thousand were NEVER (Not "scrubbed") marked "U.S. Property" as they were pre-lend lease. Now keeping track of that serial number range would be cool as well.

Edit- The above paragraph has now been debunked but I have kept it in order for the postings below to make sense.

EDIT- Here are two pics. All accesories are either South African made or issued, or Savage made.

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"You don't throw away a whole life just cause he's banged up a little." - Chris Cooper as "Tom Smith" in the Movie "Seabiscuit"
Edited by - theleftboot on 06/07/2005 1:22:59 PM
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Woodman in MO

Actually TLB, I recall someone posting a picture of 0C17 and it had the US Property Stamp on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
CONE

I'll add my 1942 "US Property" mkd No.4MkI Savage with s/n 4C76XX. As an aside, it has the 6 groove barrel.

CC
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lance

n my collection Rifle 0C907 does have the US Property, and 57C0830 is not dated.

Lance
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
theleftboot

In an effort to start a truly congenial and intellectual discussion on a topic I thought I would submit the following in which I partly based my earlier comments. (Please read as I actually typed it all in!):

Page 289 of Ian Skennerton's "The Lee-Enfield Story"

"British approval was required for such changes and manufacturing concessions to components because a sizeable percentage of the Long branch rifles and virtually all the Stevens-Savage rifles were to fill British orders, and were therefore subject to acceptance by the British Inspectorate. In the initial Savage production, many rifles were rejected by the British inspectors; this was not properly resolved until a Lend-Lease agreement was formulated between the British and U.S. governments.

Under the new agreement the British had less control in the initial inspection and refusal of rifles; conditions for payment were changed also which further reduced some of the controls Britain previously had. The Lend-Lease rifles are marked "U.S. Property" while those produced earlier under the direct purchase system were not so marked as they were for a direct British contract."

I wonder if some of these early rejected contract rifles were back at the factory when the agreement switched to lend lease and before they went out the door a second time they were given the "U.S. Property" marking like their latter made counterparts. Just an idea.


EDIT- Okay, because I am really bored tonight, here are three pics of my 1942 South African issued Savage No.4 MK I. Please note in the first pic the SA made sling, 1942 Savage action cover, SA bayonet and SA made frog. Also note the Belgian made grenade launcher and case that are both SA issue marked.

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You can faintly due to my newbie photography, can see the "U.S. Property" marking and the SA issue marking on the receiver ring:

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[/quote]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Arado

My Savage No4 Mk 1(T) s/n 0C4347 is not US Property marked. It is Holland and Holland marked (S51) Never fitted with mount/scope. Released from storage after war and is marked "ENGLAND". Unfired, mint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Cosmo

My Savage is #90C4189 and is US Property marked. The bolt head and bolt handle which are Savage marked are stamped with a "P" rather than a flaming bomb. The bayo lug is also "P" marked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Claven2

My highest Savage is, according to Skennerton, a late production 1944. Serial number 0C39277.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
CMorse

My Savage #4 Mk1* s.n. 52C9686 no date. 2 groove barrel, Mk2 rear sight,U.S. Property, all Savage parts,
Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
miketv

arado,

I have a MkI Savage (T) less scope in the 13C S/N range and a MkI* (T) in the 16C S/N range. Has anyone ever been able to determine when the changeover to MkI*'s occured at Savage? The rest of my Savage rifles fall within the known S/N ranges and are nothing remarkable. All of them ar marked with the US Property stamp.

I tend to believe the story about the first 1000 rifles to be just that, a story... There is quite a bit of hard evidence to the contrary from surviving examples within that particular S/N block. That being said, I own an example of a SA property stamped Savage that has had the US property stamp neatly filed off and the area (or reciever)reblued. Who and why remain a mystery.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
mauserdad

Here are mine
1942 No4Mk1* ser#35C5322 South African marked U.S.Property

No Date No4Mk1* ser# 64C1589 U.S.Proprtyy

No Date No4Mk1* ser# 96C8465 U.S.Property

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Claven2

OK... more info then: 2-groove bbl, early button cocking piece (using up old parts at end of production?), has US property stamp. Flaming bombs on left receiver wall and on right bayonet lug. No date stamp - but that's pretty obvious given that it's a 1944. Stock wood is all birch and all savage marked. Magazine is serialled to the rifle and there is a small repair to the heel of the buttstock, but rifle is not FTR marked. Probably a british field repair b/c the patch is beech. No import or export marks, so this one was probably surplused from somewhere other than Britain. It's been in Canada a long time, not a recent import.

For those who don't know, after serial number 99C9999 they started over at 0C00001 <- note the 5 digits after the "C"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Gfl 775

I'm in..I'll go for the highest numbered Mk I. Rifle is number 13C2752(matching).With the exception of the rear sight(SM stamped) and front sight guard(^ stamped)just about every part on the rifle is S stamped, including the swivels and wood.Bands are milled, buttplate is aluminum ,it has flaming bomb proofs,2 groove barrel and a square cocker.No FTR marks,reciever looks to be parked,no black paint no export/import marks, nothing to indicate colonial service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Gene M.

Great info! I will update the table shortly. I do have some specific questions for the following:

Lance - 0C907 - MKI? 1941 date? If so lowest confirmed MKI.

ARADO - 0C4347 - 1941 or 1942 date?

SteveM - 0C9506 - MKI? No date? or does it have 5 digits after the C?
28C9502 - MKI or MKI*?

MikeTV - 13Cxxxx -US PROPERTY marked? Would like first digit after C if OK - 13C1xxx.

GFL775 - Stamped 1942? US PROPERTY?

Thanks
Gene
 
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