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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Surrender Tag
Topic:


Topic author: emrisg
Subject: Surrender Tag
Posted on: 07/02/2005 09:42:11 AM
Message:
I have purchased a pistol from a forum memeber that has a wooden tag with Japanese writing. Does anybody know the significance of these tags and does anybody know a source for translation?

Thanks for your help.

Replies:

Reply author: rcb
Replied on: 07/02/2005 09:55:38 AM
Message:
Post a picture of the pistol and close up of the tag and someone will come along and transulate it for you. rcb.

Reply author: RickV
Replied on: 07/02/2005 12:23:03 PM
Message:
Here's a couple of close-up shots of the tag.


Rick
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Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 07/02/2005 11:33:01 PM
Message:
Top photo is "Hyo-butai Naimu-ka" that translates to "Leopard Unit Internal Affairs Dept".
2nd photo is "Toyoshima Jo-so" translating to "Sergeant Major Toyoshima"
A quick check revealed a "Leopard Unit" under the 263rd Naval Air Corps that flew Zeros stationed in Guam, but can't be absolutely certain if it is the same "Leopard".
But anyway you cut it, you have a cool tag on your pistol.


Reply author: emrisg
Replied on: 07/03/2005 07:58:47 AM
Message:
Does anybody know the exact purpose of these tag?


Thanks so much for your help.

Emris

Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 07/03/2005 10:04:05 AM
Message:
Uhhm, it's a name tag, can't think of another purpose.
You don't want your gun mixed up with other guys guns, especially out in the field units.


BTW, the navy rank "Jo-so" was downgraded in 1942 to the equivalent of corporal in the Army.

Reply author: Jareth
Replied on: 07/03/2005 11:27:04 AM
Message:
Perhaps this tag was married to the pistol. If it was a surrender tag the soldier wouldn't expect to have his pistol returned anytime soon. Could of come off a sword or other. Holsters usually carry this info on either interior or both sides of the flap. Just my opinion.


Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 07/03/2005 12:08:39 PM
Message:
Usually, surrender tags are placed on personally owned items, such as an officer's swords, and has his personal address on them.
In this case, I do not know what the pistol is, but if it is a NCO military issue (not personally purchased), the soldier would not have expected the weapon to be returned anyways. Also, just writing the unit name will not be useful with a surrender tag. I still think it was just used for an in-unit ID purpose.


Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 07/03/2005 1:53:48 PM
Message:




quote: Originally posted by pacific-war44
IMHO,you normally see cloth tags w/street addys. on swords.The little wood tags usually seem to contain,as this one,name,rank and unit,and usually on issue guns,binocs,ect..As Eddoko presumes,just a little insurance that you don't mix up something and lose that could get you beaten by a superior down the road.On a pistol,kinda odd,but not impossible.They seem to be on 99's a lot,but hardly ever 38's,wierd...Scott
Reply author: Edokko

Replied on: 07/03/2005 9:11:30 PM
Message:
PW-44, Yes quite agree. But a one point trivia about the beatings. It never happened to soldiers who were ranked over superior private. The beatings were done by upper rank to down below but only up to superior private. That was the silent rule in the military.

Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 07/04/2005 12:10:22 AM
Message:
Well it's nice the beatin' stopped when you started to earn 1 more yen a month! heh,Eddoko....


Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 07/04/2005 12:45:53 AM
Message:
Yeah, he he. A Yen for a slap.


Reply author: The Outlaw Josey Whales
Replied on: 07/05/2005 1:49:21 PM
Message:
Are you sure about this? I've read about British POWs in Indonesia that said their prison guards would beat each other up for all sorts of infractions including being depressed and this went up through the higher NCO ranks and lower officer ranks. I think only 23 out of the original 600 or so survived their internment. I read this in "Horror in the East".


Just put some more thought about it and most accounts your right. I don't remember hearing about corporals or sargents or whatever being beaten. Maybe the prisons guards where differant or their was exeptions to the rule? Brett

Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 07/06/2005 01:15:39 AM
Message:
I'd suggest you see "Too End All Wars",the true account by a captain in the Scots Sutherland Argylls that inspired the mostly b.s. account of Bridge on the River Kwai.This is the REAL story. In one scene,borrowed from his account,the camp's master-sergent of the guard,beat the hell out of an American merchant marine for alledgedly stealing a shovel,then his either corpral or lower sgt in charge of work detail found it afterwards,and got beat w/it in front of all ranks,damn near to death.This is supposedly true,as based on a man's recollection that became Dean of Chaplains at I believe Princeton? Don't think HE'D lie....


Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 07/06/2005 01:59:17 AM
Message:
Well, war brings out all sorts of "that's not the rule !" kinda situation. And no doubt lot's of NCO and higher got beaten up for something done at a bad TPO situation.
The point I was getting at, was beating underlings up as part of the "toughening" process was protocol in the Japanese military, but that protocol did not apply to higher ups.


Reply author: emrisg
Replied on: 07/11/2005 12:22:32 PM
Message:
I was thinking that if my gun was produced in march of 45 (20.3) and surrender tag was original to gun ( assumption) then there is no way he was on Guam, as Guam was taken before pistol was made.


I pulled up some information on Leopard Unit that was in Phillipines until the war ended.

Can anybody reccomend any sources of information on Japanese units and where they served in WWII?

Thanks

Emris

Reply author: CW
Replied on: 07/11/2005 12:32:26 PM
Message:
Maybe the tag was on a sword, and some GI sold the sword and kept the tag?


I've heard of other accounts of Japanese officers beating their own troops. Alot of gaurds were Korean and were treated like crap, and in turn, took their frustrations out on prisoners. I recall something like this being mentioned in "Ghost Soldiers" at Cabanatuan.


 
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