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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the early winter of 1943, Aino Mäkinen and his unit was ambushed by a Soviet offensive in Karelia. The brave Finns managed to beat the Russians back and inflict some casualties. Upon examining the field after the battle was over, Aino found a Soviet SVT-40 rifle. Excited (it was a popular rifle among Finnish troops), Aino took the rifle with him on his way back to base. Not many people know this, but right after the battle the Finns got caught in a rain storm, the weather was just above freezing and the unrelenting rain soaked all the men and their equipment. Upon getting back, Aino took all his clothes and equipment and put them in the dryer (along with the SVT-40 rifle), unfortunately for him he set the heat too high, and the SVT (along with his wool underwear and socks) shrunk! At first he was upset (everyone needs clean warm socks and underwear in the winter war), but then he realized, hey, this carbine is pretty handy!

This carbine just sold for over $2,000, haters are going to say the story is fake but I'm sticking to it!

Tula Russian SVT 40 7.62 x 54 Semi Auto Nice - Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com : 886161392
 

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I saw it too. It was relisted at least twice before. Personally I wouldn't buy it, because I believe it's one of Finn/Canadian fantasy creations. However, since it's almost impossible for us to get a real Soviet made SKT, this one might be an OK alternate to some collectors.
 

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Joe Leiper owned an SVT40 carbine that he got from a dealer. It came into the USA thru Century Arms, as a carbine.
Didn't look at all like that one, though.
 

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In the early winter of 1943, Aino Mäkinen and his unit was ambushed by a Soviet offensive in Karelia. The brave Finns managed to beat the Russians back and inflict some casualties. Upon examining the field after the battle was over, Aino found a Soviet SVT-40 rifle. Excited (it was a popular rifle among Finnish troops), Aino took the rifle with him on his way back to base. Not many people know this, but right after the battle the Finns got caught in a rain storm, the weather was just above freezing and the unrelenting rain soaked all the men and their equipment. Upon getting back, Aino took all his clothes and equipment and put them in the dryer (along with the SVT-40 rifle), unfortunately for him he set the heat too high, and the SVT (along with his wool underwear and socks) shrunk! At first he was upset (everyone needs clean warm socks and underwear in the winter war), but then he realized, hey, this carbine is pretty handy!

This carbine just sold for over $2,000, haters are going to say the story is fake but I'm sticking to it!

Tula Russian SVT 40 7.62 x 54 Semi Auto Nice - Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com : 886161392
Converted in Canada
 

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isnuck a Finn SVT40 Rifle and carbine and 2 Johnsons in 7 mm across the border from Canada Back in the early 70'S ,Between the Outer skin and inside paneling of a slide in camper and couple of Ross's too. I was told A Canadian firm Converted them for handier hunting rifles ! Back then all 5 were less than $900.00 .which was a lot of money at the time ! I'll go with what Ontario Bait & tackle tld Me and My Canuck buddy was told .Charlotte Willke knew Her guns ! All SVT'S were SA marked then .
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No SVT-40 carbines were ever made. The only exception to that are several experimental/trial/presentation Tula models and some Factory no .74 ones made for paratrooper trials. None of them ever entered serial production. If you ever see one outside of a Russian museum there is a 99.999% chance it's a fake/fantasy rifle
 

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Actually they were made and used in extremely small quantities. However I haven't seen yet any authentic one outside of Russian museums.
Chumak writes in his article about carbines that carbines were never officially adopted by army, but evidences (including pictures) allow to make conclusion that small batches of M1940 variations were manufactured up to 1943, semi, select and even sniper (also semi and select variants). There's an evidence of using at least one one sniper carbine by 61st Army in 1942-43 and there's even a picture (poor quality though). Carbine is mentioned in NKO order #0451 (about military classified information). And Germany identified carbines as SiGewehr 259/2(r). However in my opinion that might not necessarily be authentic carbines but also field cuts, that are also known. Also it's worth adding that there were small batches of "presentation" carbines. All above from #314. Mentioned above #74 carbines for paratroopers never made past trial variants.
 

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When I see auctions like the example linked by the OP I have a hard time understanding how such mistakes happen in this day and age.

New collectors have every right to be saddened that because of their young age or a late start they missed out on the tremendous variety and low prices on C&R imports back in the ‘80s and ‘90s. I feel the same way about missing out on the incredible surplus market when the imports first started to arrive back in the ‘50s. Collecting today is undoubtedly less exciting and more expensive than it was in the past.

But something that those new to gun collecting take for granted, something that longtime collectors never imagined, is the tremendous amount of information that is but a couple of keystrokes away. The resources available today, the ability to post questions and photos and receive virtually instantaneous answers, is absolutely amazing.

And it’s clear that huge numbers of collectors and gun buyers in general do not avail themselves of the knowledge at their fingertips.

When I see people paying large sums for obvious clunkers like the Tokarev carbine I just can’t muster any sympathy. Back in the old days these SVT carbines were widely assumed to be authentic Russian conversations. The very few general reference books on military small arms (at least those in English) all offered slightly different versions of the same three or four sentences on the history of these guns and the same line drawing, all of which traced back to assorted US military technical reports on foreign weapons. Errors, assumptions, misinterpretations, all repeated over and over again.

It’s not hard to understand how collectors back in the old days made mistakes and assumed fakes and commercial conversations were authentic. During the Cold War era original source information on Soviet small arms, and virtually everything else, was considered highly confidential state secrets, so up to date and accurate data was simply not available to collectors of these guns.

What we knew about Russian and Combloc firearms was heavily based upon conclusions made by collectors who formed their theories based upon their first own hand experiences and those shared by their fellow collectors. The insurmountable problem was the difficulty in connecting with each other so that the knowledge base could be shared and expanded.

In the old days we gathered together at gun shows to swap stories. We wrote letters to each other and frequently had conversations on the phone. Once in a blue moon well written and illustrated articles on military small arms appeared in the popular gun magazines and they were cherished by collectors like myself.

It was only about twenty years ago that serious doubt began to arise about the authenticity of these carbines. This subject was a huge and very contentious matter on Tuco’s Forum circa 1999-2000, and some very nasty arguments took place. The controversy and the anger was quite intense.

Once the battle of contesting ideas began it didn’t take long however for the SVT carbine myth to die a well deserved death as information from Finland and Russia became common knowledge.

In short, years ago being a collector, a knowledgeable collector who didn’t make many bad purchases, took a great deal of time and effort. There were often occasions when information was simply nonexistent and when you found something new, a variant that was different from the commonly available firearms, you had to use your best judgement and rely upon your pit of the stomach instincts. Is it good or is it bad? A question that often needed to be answered immediately because the guy staring bullets in the back of your head was waiting to pounce the moment you put the gun down on the gun show table.

Collecting back in the good old days was a rough and tumble experience! :giggle:

I hope that my trip down memory lane will not chase away too many and that those who stayed will pay at least a little attention to my underlying message: It has NEVER been easier to avoid making mistakes in purchasing guns and with a tiny fraction of the effort that it used to require, you can, and should become an expert on what you collect.
 

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The carbines are neat,but worth less than the rifle.On the other hand, a gun is worth what you can get for it ! Guns are like car seats ,There's an ass for every one ! !f someone pays a lot for a certain gun ,so be it , it's their money and I hope t they.re happy & enjoy it ! there is another old saying about opinions.............. !
 

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One theory is that those carbines were modified Finn captured SVT40 imported into Canada and modified by Canadians.
There were numerous sale ads for the SVT carbine conversions in the popular gun magazines back in the ‘50s and ‘60s. I have the ads saved somewhere and I recall posting them on Tuco’s Forum twenty years ago when these carbines were a hot topic of discussion.

It’s driving me crazy that I can’t remember the names of the two distributors/sellers. o_O

I can picture the ads in my head and the names are on the tip of my tongue. Something to do with the name “Hudson.” Viking carbine? I know it will come to me but I also know I won’t be able to sleep tonight until I do.

If there’s interest, and no one beats me to it, I’ll find and post the ads in question just as soon as I remember.
 
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There was also the Globeco "Mowhawk 555" which I have one of, but they were a sported version in .303 Brit. could that be what Richard is trying to remember?

View attachment 3784716
Thanks for posting! Yes, I do remember the Globeco advertisements but their .303 sporter is not carbine conversion I’m thinking of. I still can’t get my foggy memories to focus but sooner or later, when I least expect it, the names will come to mind.
 

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Sniper in Stalingrad 1942

Sniper in Stalingrad 1942


Description

Hero of the Soviet Union, Nikolai Yakolevich Illyin who killed 216 enemy soldier's in Stalingrad. He was killed in 1943 at Donbass. While dying Illyin said pass my rifle to Afanasi (Afanasi Gordienko his best friend since Stalingrad) Afanasi took Illyins rifle and swore to avenge his death,but not much longer Afanasi was also killed in action. Their rifle that they died with an M91/30 with PU scope can be seen today in the moscow armed forces museum


Recent comments
  • Jugend (Fri 20 Aug 2010 05:45:34 PM EDT)
    cleaning rod in place for those who thought snipers removed them.
  • Hvirring (Fri 20 Aug 2010 02:57:07 PM EDT)
    Notice: German helmet on the ground?
  • Non_Sequitor (Fri 20 Aug 2010 09:43:17 AM EDT)
    Carter,
    The person depicted unrealistically in the film "Enemy at the Gates" was Vasily Zaitsev (sp).
  • carternewton (Fri 20 Aug 2010 03:04:15 AM EDT)
    Is the same fellow featured in Enemies at the Gate?
  • DieGrosseSchlag (Fri 20 Aug 2010 12:20:36 AM EDT)
    The rifle is a Tokarev SVT-40 7.62mm. semiautomatic rifle with a 10-round magazine. This is the shortened carbine version.
 
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