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Platinum Bullet member
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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know where I can find a few original vintage clips for my 1915 Amberg Gew 98?
 

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Good question. I've been force-feeding my Spandau with 1936 clips. It tolerates it...
 

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WW-I Clips

I think I have about 3 of the old brass WW-I Mauser clips - but I think I'll hang on to 'em!

They do show up every now and then - keep an eye on the gun shows in your area or the auction sites.

Should I discover an unknown stash of them amongst my late Father's estate effects (and I just might) I'll keep you in mind!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks - that would be great! Can you post photos of what they look like? Be nice to know what I'm looking for.
 

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Wow - these must be like Japanese WW2 entrenching tools - millions made, few survived! I only need a couple! :)
 

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Here Ya Go!

Couldda swore I had at least 3, but was only able to dig up this one.

Oh well; here's a few studies of that FYI:



here's the other side.



Kinda hard to tell which is which from the picture, but when you see one in all 3 dimensions it's easy to see which end is up. The spring tabs on each end bend up towards the front (ammo) side.

You can see just a little bit of the end of one of these tabs sticking up in the middle of this end view:



Loading these clips is a little tricky - I try not to let the first cartridge slide down any furthur than the head diameter from the end.
That way it keeps the spring tab depressed a little and makes it easier to get subsequent rounds in.



You have to work the edge of the ctg. rim into the end of the clip and catch the spring tab under the base of the case head...



The rims are apt to want to just fetch up against the end of the tab and stop or run underneath it - which won't do, either.

Once you get the rim over the tab, sort of roll it down against spring tension and catch the other side of the rim under the opposite side rail:



... try not to let the spring tab pop out from underneath the rim - and then slide the cartridge down into the rack just far enough for the next one.

I use my left ring finger to hold the first round up and keep the stack of rounds from going too far down and letting the spring tab all the way up.

Repeat for 5 rounds.

Here we have a clip all stoked up with 5 rounds of Egyptian 210 gr. Ball (Don't that stuff kick like the very devil?!!).



To charge the magazine, open the bolt and insert the end of the clip into the charger slot in the top of the receiver bridge just behind where the bolt handle sticks out.
Push it down until it stops; the bottom "sausage bumps" on the sides of the clip should be about half way down below the top surface of the receiver.
Note the 3 little sausage shaped bumps along the side of the clip rail.



When the clip is seated firmly down, place the thumb over the base end of the top cartridge:



And press straight down until all cartridges are in the magazine and your thumb rests in the cut-out in the top of the left receiver rail.



In combat, a forcefull forward thrust or blow on the bolt would eject the clip as it chambered the first round.
For casual shooting though, it is much better to just pick it out and lay it aside for future use.

Springfield clips look similar to the Mauser variety, except that instead of the spring tabs they use a narrow metal tab that sticks out of each end, and is bent up to hold the cartridges in once it is loaded.

You can reload them about 5 times (if you keep bending the tab back up after each use) before the little tab flex stress fractures and breaks off, but the Springfield clips were intended to be expendable and only used once so that was a non issue for the US military.

Back when we were getting all that super cheap Turkish 8mm ammo in bandoleers (Ah; those were the days!) I recall that they came on clips, but I think that they were steel.
If you can find a bando or two of that ammo you'd have at least a few clips.
Hopefully someone out there will have saved his Turkish clips and share a few with you.

Hope that these pics and observations are helpful to ye - and good luck finding a stash of 'em!
 

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These are Turk jobs, not Imperial German stripper clips/chargers.. the earliest ones were much as these are, though not brass, the ones from the Great War were very much like the ones from the nazi era but only marked differently.
Kent's book on ammunition goes into the markings well enough and I would do you a few pics however they changed the format here but I will try and pull a few for you and do my own images tomorrow.

Since I started my website on these chargers I have found the marked ones to be quite elusive, at least certain years, imperial era ones are hardest to find but all can be found with diligence. (good news if you come across them at gunshows they often can be had for $1 or less, bad news is they are not terribly commonly seen "marked")

I collect these and will trade for others I need.
 

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These are Turk jobs, not Imperial German stripper clips/chargers.. the earliest ones were much as these are, though not brass, the ones from the Great War were very much like the ones from the nazi era but only marked differently.
Kent's book on ammunition goes into the markings well enough and I would do you a few pics however they changed the format here but I will try and pull a few for you and do my own images tomorrow.

Since I started my website on these chargers I have found the marked ones to be quite elusive, at least certain years, imperial era ones are hardest to find but all can be found with diligence. (good news if you come across them at gunshows they often can be had for $1 or less, bad news is they are not terribly commonly seen "marked")

I collect these and will trade for others I need.
Here are a few I had on the pc; note the early one? Similar to the Turks but this is German (note the very small "DM" center)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Great information! Thanks. Now, my question is how do I tell Great War clips from later clips. I'll obviously be looking for that real early example that looks like a Turk clip as well.
 

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Interesting....

I always thought those brass clips were WW-I, as that's what I seem to recall my Pappy telling me they were.

I borrowed some Turk 8mm today at a club function to feed my K-98, and it was on brass strippers - but they are quite different from the spring tab versions that I posted about previously.

............


The 2 clips on the left are for the 1903 and 03-A3 Springfield; they also work in the US M-1917 rifle.

The brass one I am told is of the type used in WW-I while the parkerized steel one is more WW-II era.

The major differences in the Springfield clip is the bend-up retaining tabs at the ends and they only have 2 "sausage bumps" along the sides as opposed to the Mauser's 3.

There is a shallow "V" strip running along the bottom of the Springfield clip that presses up on the edges of the case head pinching the rims between it and the top rail, and keeps the cartridges from rattling around in the clip.

On the left are the Mauser clips; the Turkish clips - at least the ones I used today - have a smooth, flat floor which is held up by some sort of a spring, and is a lot easier to load than the spring tab type.
The floor plate also bends down on the ends, covering the space between the floor plate and bottom of the clip, preventing the rim from getting hung up under the floor plate as it is introduced into the clip.

A much better design than either the early Mauser or the Springfield, in my opinion.

I'm also going to edit my previous posts with some illustrations of how I load the Mauser clip, in case anyone is interested
I find that there is a little trick to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the information! Great photos too. :)
 

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Its nothing personal Jaque, but none of these are Great War anything, the new ones you show are Czech in origin and were sold to Turkey in quantity, you can find them in steel and brass and the steel ones are often mfg marked, on occasion the brass ones are too, not sure which ones the Czech military used but like the Germans probably the steel ones (you can find German strippers/chargers made of brass but they are as often as not early ones and probably sold for commercial sale to Portugal or one of the other countries that Germany courted for their mining products).

The ones I showed are Imperial German, and one guy (Mauserdad or ?) had a set as well, they are not common enough to get in quantity and those you show are all extremely easy to obtain (I actually use the Czech ones you show for actual shooting my rifles as they are cheap, expendable and quite good in the field... )

Naturally as with anything you read on a forum, - take it and confirm it but if you take the time you will find yours are not Imperial era strippers/chargers.
 

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I Stand Edified!

No offense taken at all, and like I said my only indication of the vintage of those clips was something my late Father told me years ago and he apparently was mis-informed about them as well, even though he was usually pretty up on that stuff.

You've obviously studied the subject a lot more than i have, and I appreciate being brought up to speed on it - a little bit anyway.

I never thought much about the multitude of variations of these simple little accessories, but it seems that they are a worthy subject of collection unto themselves.

I checked out your website, but all I found was an order form for a book or magazine subscription and a chart on the gehwer site from 1934. The magazine looks interesting but I get way more than I get around to reading already.
Do you have all of this Great War stripper clip info with pictures on a web site somewhere?
Now you've got me curious!

Am I correct in assuming that the brass Springfield clips are early / WW-I vintage?
When did they switch to steel?

Are the 3 "sausage bumps" (as I call them anyway) along the side of the clip common to all Mauser clips? If so, that would be a good way to distinguish any type of Mauser clip from a Springfield, wouldn't it?
 

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The chart is dated, http://gewehr98.com/html/clips.htm there was a couple updates to the MRJ with a current chart for 1934-45, - the current chart is extensively updated; I need to update the entire Gewehr98.com website as I have extensive updates for it but the guy who helped me setup Gewehr98.com bailed out on continuing it so I have to do some figur'n on how to do the update thing..

As to Imperial strippers, I wasn't planning to get this involved in this discussion, Götz covers the development in as much detail as anyone and Kent covers the coding used early on as it relates to ammunition which follows on the strippers/chargers somewhat, no one I know of in English covers this subject in great detail (there are no books on strippers/chargers).
I collect marked stripper clips and have collector friends in the UK, France & Germany who have helped me gather what information I have, it is a niche field where only recently any interest has been shown and that is mostly in the nazi era chargers, collectors in the UK (where they can't collect much else..) have been especially helpful in collecting examples.

I will try and attach Götz paragraph on the subject, his picture is in B&W and of little value but they show the two types I show above, - the early type like your Turk jobs, though made of steel (hence the rust on my single marked example), and the nickel plated brass/steel ones (I don't recall his exact statement on this).

As to the MRJ, certainly we utilize the website to sell our range of books as it supports the continued existence of the MRJ (which doesn't support itself by subscription alone) and the site is set up to offer a glimpse at what is being written about by exposing the content pages (our current issue will have a cover up in 2-3 days, covering subjects ranging from a Finnish used Swedish rifle, Mauser Banner 98k variation, to a number of articles based around barrel subcontractors for the 98k and the German Ordnance Staffs set up in Poland in 1939- find such articles in a pulp gun magazine?).

Compared to the generalizations and overall lack of depth found in gun magazines I prefer newsletters by far, - whether Banzai, MRJ of AutoMag I make the time to read the hobby newsletters as that is where ground breaking research is done- you'll find little of value in the Gun & Ammo types as they are marketed to appeal to the masses that get hijacked along with their ole ladies to the local Wal Mart.
 

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Here is two scans, top one from "The German Rifle by John Walter" page 104; second German Military Rifles & Machine Pistols 1871-1945 by Hans Dieter Götz" page 135; - note Walter references Götz as his source so one comment is essentially a repetition of another and imo error prone as it relates to wartime Germany.

The mention is of brass being used, in the Great War copper or brass would not have been a favored metal in such a disposable item as a charger, and the ones that were in German hands would have been melted during the 1915-16 period if any were still on hand- nickel would have been out of the question for utilization for chargers after the war became inevitable, as both are metals the Germans would have had strict control on- as in the Second, both were equally controlled.

In other words this is the snapshot from very early on for the development of the charger not the situation as it existed in 1914. I found no sources for developments beyond 1904, - you might note for this Götz mentions the two-piece sheetmetal type that was used later (up to the Great War and during, sheetmetall was the standard and nickel nor copper would have been used as both were strategic metals the Germans used extensive means to control, there have been studies done on steel used by the Germans and its qualitive aspects done by the US Army after the Great War noting the German expediencies in steel making- also after the Second World War CIOS reports on same) and Walters not mentioning this in his text.. not sure why the oversight on Walter's part skipping this but Walter is clearly in error.

Anyway, I put both up for you to make your own opinion, - all known Imperial German strippers/chargers are sheet steel, though of course other collectors may have seen the earliest types Götz alludes too, - I and my fellow collectors I have discussed this with have not.

Oh, as I type I have enroute, Jon Speed's new book "Mauser Archives" and with any luck at all I will have it in hand today, if so I will see if Mr. Speed can illuminate this further, - I have the greatest expectations to his new book!!

Buy books, and subscribe to newsletters as they are the forefront of collecting-
 

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If you collect mausers or have an interest that goes beyond caliber, year it was made and how to disassemble ---

subscribe to the MRJ.

Articles are written by extremely knowledgeable people, usually in-depth and detailed information.

The forums are great and have changed the way (and speed) information is obtained - but - in my opinion - collector books and newletters are still the *best* way to obtain information. I don't think it is an either-or situation; I think the two mediums compliment each other.


just my 2 cents worth.
 

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Hello,

Here are some pics of a German WWI clip with still 3 rounds in it. The clip is made of brass. You can find these things quite common here. I found it last spring on an acre. (Ypres-Belgium where there was a lot of fighting back in 1914-1918)

Regards
 

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Very cool, have some Great War US 30-06 found in France by a French collector in much the same condition! This stripper/charger of yours have a set of letters on it?

Clearly original, and very nice, the ammunition dates it well too!

Jebber, - I couldn't agree with you more!


Hello,

Here are some pics of a German WWI clip with still 3 rounds in it. The clip is made of brass. You can find these things quite common here. I found it last spring on an acre. (Ypres-Belgium where there was a lot of fighting back in 1914-1918)
 

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Ah-ha

I guess that by Azrael's documentation of the one-piece brass clip, it shows that Hans-Dieter Gotz was right again. He illustrates this style clip in "German Military Rifles & Machine Pistols 1871-1945" along with the standard two-piece clips as being used by Germany in WW1. Frankly I had always thought that he had made a mistake on this one but I guess not? Good for him and Uncle Jaque, I've learned a lesson. Thanks Azrael.
 

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You're welcome! It's my pleasure to learn some things on Mausers. I've included some pics. On the clip on the bottom you can see 2 horizontal markings (damage?). How do marked clips look like? Does somebody know what the 4 rounds are like with a sort of canvas wrapped around? Thanks in advance.



Regards
 
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