Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,
In my Swiss Sturmgewehr 57 with an aftermarked heavy barrel - I have noticed some strange looking deposits
they look like little crystals and are in the 1. third of the Barrel (the muzzle being at the end of the 3. third)

We are getting new Amo from 2017, which is noticeably different than the GP11 from 1993 and older
- with a changed powder recipe - should be more environmentally friendly - those deposites might come from the new Amo
but I wonder wat those Crystals are and how to get rid of them
the normal cleaning with the bronze brush is of limited success


Automotive lighting Automotive tire Hood Motor vehicle Automotive design


Greeting from Switzerland
Jonas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,569 Posts
Jonas that looks like metal fouling peeling away from the lands. I once bought a Spanish Mauser that had a bright smooth bore. I fired a couple of boxes of FN military surplus ammo through it that had cupro-nickel jackets. I cleaned it and left some Hoppes #9 in it for a few days. When I patched it out the patch was shredded and the bore looked like a Chia Pet. I soaked it for a week and finally was able to brush out the fouling back to a bright smooth bore.

Bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,668 Posts
I think that's pits not deposits.The lighting is sometimes confusing with bore-scopes!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,573 Posts
I've always experienced very limited success scrubbing out pits. Metal fouling will always give up with due diligence and proper technique.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,300 Posts
My impression is pits.

The 'whatever they ares' are brighter when the light is hitting them directly (you are lighting up the 'back side' of the pits), but they are almost totally dark when you look at them in the reflected light in the mirror (you can't get any light on the near side of the pits).

This is the way that pits would light up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
Cupronickel fouling. Rare with Swiss rifles, where the cupronickel in only 16.9% of the Jacket material. Never seen it in that form with the older GP11 we shot in Swiss clubs here in the US (for example they issued 81 dated Thune with the wax ring for the Federal shoot this spring), but I have seen sufficient buildup that I had to clean with fouling type cleaner.

I saw something like that in 5.6 match barrels that shot the old GP90 (5.6, not 7.5) with the cupronickel jackets. It was flakes on the lands and hard as hell to remove with the solvents we had back in the 1990s. Now it is no problem.

You can use something like patch out, (not sure if it is available in Switzerland). Here is the stuff I use for a fouled High-power competition barrel, no issued yet. Patch-out:


I also note, from looking at my shooting log books, that that with the K31 in the late 1940s production I prefer to use for matches, that when I used the areoshell 33M, which many club shooters use in Switzerland, that I got more fouling on the bore than when I used the the old WaffenFett. Not sure why but the fouling I have with the Waffenfett, either old stock or new made (lanolin and boiled olive oil), that I can shoot 700 rounds before I find any build up, with Areoshell 33M or Automatenfett, it is apparent in less than 300 rounds of non waxed ammo (82 and after). Wax seems to help keep the fouling under control.

This year is the first time I really had an issues, but in preparation for I shot 565 GP11 rounds, plus 146 rounds in the matches. The change from the aeroshell to the Waffenfett reduced the fouling to a marked degree, though again, not having any of the most recent lots to test the results may not correlate to what you see. But I note on the lost that did foul, it was primarily on the lands where it appeared, and when pushing a tight patch through from muzzle to chamber (with a bore guide) you could detect some roughness, which as gone after using the above cleaner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the insights ans idea's,
Looking more into the borescope makes me start beliving the idea of "metal fouling peeling away from the lands"
The barrel has some estimated 7000 shots on it - the GP11 has a Nickel or Cu/Ni coated steele jacket boattaile bullet 174gr. at 2560ft/s and max 55000psi - so some cupro/nickel deposits is well possible imho
I can't rule out pits as well - hopefully those are pits in a metall fouling - I give some chemical Cu/Ni cleanig a try

Automotive tire Automotive lighting Hood Motor vehicle Automotive exterior


Cheers
Jonas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
By the way, I do use this tool to put a grase ring on each GP11 I fire - many shooters do that in switzerland - less fouling, better precission and less jamming is the expected result, I cant say if it's snake oil tough - but it makes the mess in the STGW 57 easier to clean out for sure

the lower GP11 has a grase Ring on it - hard to see tough
Pen Product Office supplies Writing implement Cosmetics


Kind regards - and thanx

Jonas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,165 Posts
I have a Winchester 1895 saddle ring carbine that was made in 1915. So about the age where cupro nickle bullets were used. Lumps and I do mean lumps of cupro nickle fouling on the tops of the lands. Tried hoppe's and no joy. Next up was Butch's Bore Shine and while much better some of the larger lumps still remained. So would patch out the bore each night and get green patches the following night. This went on for at least two months. Was using Dewey 30 cal bore brushes. Finally found a couple of 8mm bore brushes. Dried out the Hoppes with patches and slobbered the bore with Butchs Bore Shine. Really had to work the brush through the bore. Took the whole mess into the garage and stuck two non marring inserts in my vise,clamped the barreled action in between the inserts and tightened the vice. One piece cleaning rod. You could feel and hear the bristles rubbing the CN lumps. 40 full strokes in and out. Washed with Kroil on patchs. Inspection showed some improvement so at I was making some headway. repeated the process again. little better. It took 6 full treatments of Bore shine with a 8mm brush to rid the barrel of the CN. Now when I leave the hoppes soaked patch soaked barrel I do not get any discoloration. Run an oversized brush such as a 8mm brush down your barrel. if the fouling is still there you can both feel it and you should be able to feel the bristles skitter over the lumps of CN fouling. I live in a small town so no patchout was /is available. JB bore compond can be used if the take a thick patch that has been heavily impregnated with it and warpped around the brush and run back and forth the length of your barrel. after 40 paasses, clean out the crud in the barrel, use your borescope to see if you removed any. If not repeat as needed. Hope this helps. Frank
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
Jonasbae,

Do they still make those? (the wax applicators).

if they do, what sort of wax is used? I have never seen an exact delineation of the wax compound.

I do not see on on Wyss site, or a source of the wax.

Have wanted to try that one 7.62 NATO for years, in late 1990s used Molly grease on rounds used in Canadian full bore matches, but that was very small ring applied with a modified syringe and would not work with wax.

Thanks if you have any guidance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@Fritz
Unfortunatly the Man producing those grease Applicators died about 10 Years ago, he was a member of my current shooting asossiation- I was very lucky to find one. However aparantly somebody has started pruducing those again, but only for GP90 ( .223) caliber
Sorry
Jonasbae
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
Jonasbae

what wax or wax mixture do you use? If I know that I would be at least halfway there.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top