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Discussion Starter #1
May I suggest that we make this one a sticky?

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Ronin48
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 08:25:38 AM
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As you know the Japanese Gunboards "site" is composed of a Board such as this and a "Japanese Trader" board that only allows Japanese 'sell, wanted, trade' items. Any chance such a board could be set up for Italian collectors? Wife and I go to an average of 20 shows a year, as far N. as MA and as far W as AZ (We're in AL). On occasion I pick up Italian material and pass it along at a show. I would perfer to post it where Italian collectors would have first shot.

I do not use (watch or post on) the 'big' trader board associated with Gunboards, too much other junk to wade through.

I believe most others who are 'members' of this Board would be in favor of such an addition. I have no idea of what it would take to add such a board. Is it feasible, can it be done?
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Edited by - Carcano on 02/24/2004 12:59:26 PM



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 09:37:29 AM
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I am not decided.

On one hand, this "Italian Firearms" board - different from other sub-boards, but with the explicit consent of the owners and administrators - has always tolerated WTB and WTS type of postings, for as long as their number would remain moderate, which was the case.

On the other hand, the reason for the small number of such postings may be the very character of this being an exception, which diligent posters might be loath to use. So, the invention of such a dedicated new board *might* indeed generate traffic there and might prove helpful for many.

On the third hand (or tail, for our resident monkeys ;)), any new boards might make the strcuture of Gunboards larger and less transparent. But you are right, the very high traffic in the "General" Trader Board is responsible for the fact - which I can attest too - that one will easily overlook an ad there.

Over all, and counting on my remaining toes (hands being occupied, see above), I believe that there are more arguments in favour of such a new board. However, I feel that - contrary to the custom in general trader boards - brief comments as the prices should be allowed ("brief" comprises: non-inflammatory, to the point, and no endless debates; simply stating that asking $ 200 for a sporterized M 1938 is four times as much as it is worth would suffice...).
This would actually be the one condition which I would be inclined to stipulate, if such an "Italian Trader's" board were to be instituted.

So let me ask you all, the regulars as well as the majority of mostly tacit readers and only occasional posters: how do you feel about Eloldehombre1's proposal ?

Warm regards from your moderator,
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano



Ronin48
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 11:39:20 AM
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I contacted you some time back about posting a Vett. cav carbine for sale ad. You said you would make an exception and 'OK' it, or something along that line. I felt I was taking advantage of the Board rules so did not post. Don't know if others feel that way.
I am having more luck selling Carcanos/Carcano parts at shows than Arisakas!!! Hate to sell Italian material at shows when there might be someone on this Board that would be interested. It will be interesting to see what othere Board 'members' think. I may have opened a can of worms. (What's 'worms' in Italina?)



SlimTim
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 1:20:04 PM
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Having a wee bit of experience with the Makarov Trader related to the Makarov forum, may I offer some input? Assuming an affirmative answer . . . a new trader forum offers a nice compromise in that it keeps WTB, WTS & WTT posts off the general forum and of course gives a specific area to go where one can always expect to find items of interest for sale. The Makarov forum & trader differs from your area here in that the Makarov forum has always frowned on WTS/WTB/WTT posts.

Since this forum has never had a rule against such posts, why not first emphasize that they are allowed and see if that meets with success. If not, perhaps it might indicate such a trader is not even needed. If wildly successful, then it could be demonstrated easily that a Carcano Trader forum is warranted.

Offered for your consideration,
SlimTim



GjMan
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 9:24:46 PM
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Like many others, apparently, I just assumed that buying/selling was not allowed here. Also, like many others, apparently, I had little luck on the big trader board regarding Carcanos. Might I suggest an interim measure?

Post a sticky to the effect that trading is allowed, and setting a few ground rules. If traffic gets so heavy that it distracts from other topics, we'll know that a separate Carcano trader board is justified.



Bill Davis
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 9:48:20 PM
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I second SlimTim's proposal. There are no doubt a LOT of people with odd parts kicking around for sale-like me-and I never have any luck on the "regular" trader board.



Jehzsa
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 11:56:50 AM
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Can I initiate the postings?

Thought I'd delete the first two WTB sentences here. Actually sounded too much like a posting in itself.
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Edited by - Jehzsa on 02/24/2004 1:35:55 PM



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 12:54:03 PM
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If it were made clear that posting ads be plain okay (rather than being just a most gracious concession of your Most Reverend Moderator, or something in that vein ;-)), demand and interest might actually spring up. Which in turn would possibly prove that an "Italian Trader" board of its own is indeed a good idea.

Jehzsa:
My answer to your question is a clear NO. Presently.
Reason: I want this thread to go on still a bit longer, and to let more of our readers have a say and express their opinion and wishes, before we possibly might set the ads free, as in the proposed "interim measure". And of course Tuco and Vic would be the ones to make an eventual decision; I could just propose it to them.

Sincerely yours,
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano



Atlpete
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 6:06:05 PM
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I have avoided WTS postings here as I thought that wasn't really the intent of the forum. That said I have made contacts through this site (and Bill's)that have allowed me to sell some surplus goodies(all gun-parts or militaria.) If it were permitted I would likely post both WTB and WTS as the need arises. I think though that there is a potential for a flood of sales oriented posts, potentially diluting the desired informational flow of Q&A that generally reigns here, as well as increasing the editing activity required of our moderator(Oh yes Alexander...you can count on it). Looks like a win-win choice for us though in the short run, until the inevitable F/S "Authentic 8mm Carcano carbine as used by Rommel's Afrika Corps" 8^(



Ronin48
Posted - 02/25/2004 : 07:05:33 AM
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Suggest those who have not - check out the "Firearms of the Rising Son" and "Japanese Trader" Boards. Will give you an idea of what an "Italian Trader" Board could become.



Jeff G.
Posted - 02/26/2004 : 6:00:31 PM
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I vote YES! The big trader has too much to wade through, you have to spend half the day looking there for something you might be interested in (but then I'm still on dial-up at home).



LtlWilli
Posted - 02/26/2004 : 6:56:30 PM
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I say "Yes"...I am only now getting into this area of collecting, and think that the availability of selling and trading here would be a very good thing....It's the difference between a specialty store and a large discount house, where it's necessary to go a long way to find what you are seeking, as opposed to finding instantly...Yes !



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 02/27/2004 : 09:40:55 AM
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Some more input; good, thanks !

Don't be shy, write your opinion pro or con, or alternatives. I want to hear the voices of more of you.
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano



LtlWilli
Posted - 02/27/2004 : 8:17:34 PM
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I do have another thought or two...While I do think that allowing trades and sales postings would be a great thing, I am decidedly undecided in the area of allowing "comments" inside the thread...I would dearly love to think that all the users here could conduct themselves with civility in the face of pricing , or desccriptive criticism. However, I am realistic ( or maybe pessimistic) enough to lean toward thinking that the possibility of pronounced verbal conflict really exists. It's just that some people cannot take any sort of criticism, no matter how gently stated.
With that in mind, I would like to point out a mistake I still inadvertantly make---I will sometimes assume, all too quickly,that an item that seems way overpriced is only some guy's attempt to find the one "sucker" he needs to make a huge profit. That is sometimes the case, I'm sure, but I have now come to realize that some things are priced according to what the seller payed for it initially. Maybe he got "took",didn't know it, and is only trying to recoup his investment--an innocent mistake for him to make. Imagine you are new to collecting Carcanos, make a post like this, and are beset by someone who is not as kindly as the other members of the board. It would be a blunt force blow, to be sure.
Yes, I'll have to mull this part over a bit more....Maybe some sort of " written in red "guidelines as to just what sort of comments would be tolerated could be drawn up?.



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 05:06:12 AM
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Dear LtlWilli:

*if* a Trader forum were to be set up (this would be Tuco's and Vic's decision, ultimately), I would absolutely insist that it be strictly moderated. Unlike this main board, where moderation is hardly ever needed, except cleaning away double postings, erasing accidentally used real names in best 1984 style ;-), and occasionally editing thread titles to make them more meaningful, a Trader's board would be - and would have to be - a bit closer looked after.

As AtlPete already wrote above:
as well as increasing the editing activity required of our moderator (Oh yes Alexander...you can count on it)

As to comments, the remark "250 $ for a well-worn Fucile 91/38 with little blueing and a missing barrel band, seems about 5 times of what it is worth" would be okay (and actually be expected ;-)). So would be discussion about age and provenance. Not okay would be personal insults. Not even to sig380 and kidbillions (although I must admit I would be hard tempted... well, maybe I'll soften my stance *grin*).
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano



LtlWilli
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 06:41:30 AM
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Well, I feel that you have made good points, and I do feel more at ease about it all....I ,after all, am one of the new guys, and know all too well what it's like to enter a new area of collecting, and immediately come across like I'm Clem Kadiddlehopper at a tuxedo formal.



Buckshot
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 05:12:41 AM
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.......I'd think it would be a good idea. I was describing here on the BB a M38 I bought, and it had a straight bolt which was incorrect. I'd mentioned purchasing a correct bent one from Springfield Sporters and immediately got a query, re: the old one with the extractor through the bolt lug. Someone had a friend in need of one and had looked all over. I sure didn't need it and it helped someone out. I sold it for the cost of the new bent bolt + shp.

At first the buying and selling might be brisk, but I'd think it would surely level off after a few weeks. Ideally a separate list would be the best idea.



Ronin48
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 10:11:12 AM
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I rarely check the "Japanese Trader" board so this is from memory, but I can not remember any comments on WTS items. Someone will post a "WTS - T99 Arisaka, 6th series with exc wood, metal, ground mum, matching, rod, $250," If $250 is too high for a ground 6th it does not sell, if not someone buys it. Can't remember a price comment and the rules may say Price Comments not allowed.

Personally I'd prefer not to have Carcano/Vett Q and A mixed in with WTS/WTB ads. I'm at the point in life where I'm more interested in information than buying another Carcano unless it is an upgrade at 1980 prices. As noted on the main trader board some months back I have several Carcanos I need to get rid of, no one was interested in buying them in one group so have started taking them to shows. I'm finding that in todays market Carcanos sell better than Arisakas. Would rather sell to Board 'members' than some guy at a show who will sand the stock, reblue etc.



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 6:55:08 PM
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Dear Elodehombre1, I sense an undertone of impatience in your last paragraph, and I wish to apologize in case that you feel a decision would be unduly procrastinated. I just wanted to let the exchange simmer for a bit of time, and to wait for some further responses from more board users. Not delay for delay's sake.
Best regards,
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano



Ronin48
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 9:29:13 PM
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No, no impatience, my surplus Italian "goods" are either on the wall or in drawers and eat little or nothing. As I remember I was responding to someone who thought WTB/WTS incorporated with this board would cut Q&As. BANZAI used to have For Sale, Wanted, and Trade all mixed together and you had to wade through all to find new items being offered. We changed this to Sale in one section and Trade/Wanted in another. Works much better.

Not sure why I mentioned the extras I will eventually part with other than it seemed like a good idea at the time. Whatever is decided is OK by me.



pennausamike
Starting Member
USA
8 Posts
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 09:24:33 AM
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I think a Want To Sell/ Want To Buy board serves another purpose that those already experienced in Carcanos (or Arisakas or Mausers or whatever)may not have thought of. It is also a learning tool for the new guys to assess values within a hobby. Information about the rifles themselves doesn't always give a true barometer of the current market prices. Also, I'm finding that gun show prices, eBay prices and Collector to Collector prices all vary considerably. On the G-43 Forum, regular board members will post links to items for sale, noting that they are a good deal, high priced, out-right-fraudulent; etc. Seeing final sale prices versus asking prices on a regular basis goes a long way toward assigning value. A website can't really post a "values table" and have it be accurate because the gun trade is a changing and dynamic environment affected by many variables. A Trader Board can better reflect that because it changes with the market.

In other words, the Italian Firearms Forum is about the weapons, accessories and history of those items; the Italian Trader Forum would be about the commerce in those items.
Mike



Stan Zielinski
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 09:49:47 AM
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Mike has a good point. Several (?) years ago when there was a hue and cry about weapons with folding bayonets I bought 6 bayonets which had been apparently removed from Italian carbines. I had no use for these; it just seemed a good idea at the time to pick these up and the price was right. Recently I sold 2 of these through these forums but really had no idea what a fair price was. According to Doss I sold them for less than half price. I don't regret this as hopefully they went to collectors who needed them to complete guns they had. But most of us work on limited budgets so we'd like to use our surplus stuff to help pay for what we want. And personally I don't care to see posts "What is my xxx worth?"



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 12:02:38 PM
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Excellent posting, Mike - thanks !
Is is for postings like this that I have wished to let this thread stay and develop a little bit longer.
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano



Tuco
Owner-Operator-Gunboards.com
USA
13614 Posts
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 4:02:51 PM
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On our side -
Sorry as I just saw this. We let Alexander run this board as he sees fit. While on 99% of the boards we do not allow ads we have let Alexander to decide if he wanted to permit ads to be placed on this board. I can state the only reason there is a Japanese Trader is that many of the Japanese collectors begged me for it. I allowed it but doubt that I would do so again as frankly is it a small field. The problem that I see with too many traders and too many boards is that users will have a hard time locating anything. We (Vic and I) feel that having one central trader is not only the easy way to go but the best way to go. There is a very active trader on this site already and why Italian arms and the like can not be listed there is a bit beyond me. This is a small field overall and I think this board fills its need well.
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Operator
Gunboards.com
www.mosinnagant.net
www.estonianarms.com



Ronin48
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 07:18:00 AM
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"...too many traders and too many boards no one would be able to find anything..." or somesuch. Sorry. Tuco, but I very strongly disagree. If every board had it's own Trader and you wanted a Finnish Mosin (Don't know why though!!!) you would go to the correct Board. For us 'country-specific' collectors the "Big Trader' is a nightmare. You have to wade through all the Mausers, Mosins, AKs, Springfields, etc to find anything Italian. I've probably looked at the "big" board half-dozen times in 5-6 years. But, 'u de bos,' and it is easier to sell at shows than have to pack and ship.

Carcano, as I understand Tuco's post 'trader ads' on this Board are a possibility. Will there be sell/trade/wanted ads on the Italian Board, if so do we run everything through you before posting???



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:47:16 AM
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My present stance is less undecided than it was before. Thanks to those who have already offered their input ! I now lean towards trying out a slightly wider opening for WTS/WTB/WTT ads in this forum, as a first step and trial. If there is a visible need and traffic, as witnessed by such participation, this may support your plea for an own "Italian Trader" board. But in any case, I suppose that I'll now have to set up some more specific rules for these ads.



Tuco
Owner-Operator-Gunboards.com
USA
13614 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:51:09 AM
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Doss- Again setting up a board that might get a couple of postings a day (if that) is I think just a waste of resources and as I stated one can go too far in breaking down the boards into subsets. Frankly if I were to do this for arms out of Italy I would have to do this for every arm - meaning Mauser (might have to break Masuer into groups like South American, German, and whatever), Enfield, Black Powder, and so on and so forth. Before long we would be hosting 50+ traders which I think would be confusing and hard to deal with. If you have only looked at the large trader a dozen times in 5 years, I think you have missed some good deals.



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 5:41:54 PM
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I agree with Eloldehombre1 rather than with Tuco, but the latter makes the decision :-D.

I'll begin to draft a few rules:

- All ads must bear the moniker WTB / WTS / WTT in the subject line.

- Ads shall be detailed and describe the item as well as possible. This applies to a rare 1891 trials rifle as well as to a single used spare part.

- Pictures are very welcome and actually encouraged.

- Comments and questions to ads are welcome (note: this is a difference to the general trader board, and only licit here). Bickerings and personal attacks are not.

- Double posting (here and on the General Trader Board) are okay with me (unless Tuco and Vic were to protest). Referrals and links to ads "somewhere else" are not, and will be erased.

- All "you have mail" or "email sent" type of follow-up postings will be immediately erased and the offender will receive a suitably harsh email. Don't even think about it.

- The moderator may and WILL (read my lips ) edit and alter ads as he sees fit. He may also delete an unfitting ad altogether, or close a thread. This also applies to comments. Consent to this is a prerequisite for using this space. If you don' wish to submit to the risk , just use the general trader board.

Best regards,
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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano
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Edited by - Carcano on 03/15/2004 1:56:03 PM



Stan Zielinski
Posted - 03/09/2004 : 10:33:37 AM
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Alexander,
Any decision on this issue?



Stan Zielinski
345 Posts
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 1:26:37 PM
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Alexander,
Excuse my previous post. May I now assume we are to follow the rules you posted above?



Carcano
Moderator Italian Weapons Forum
Germany
1040 Posts
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 2:44:14 PM
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Let's try it. Per voluntate Tuconis et Alexandri, you (meaning y'all) can now post advertisements (WTB, WTS, WTT) generally within this board, for a trial period. No previous inquiry or permission necessary.

Good luck, post your ads, and let's see how it works out !

Best regards,

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Alexander Eichener
Email: [email protected]
Carcano Website: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano

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Edited by - Carcano on 03/14/2004 7:47:53 PM
 
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