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dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 8:14:35 PM
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To all interested STEYR collectors:
I have finnished my translation of a STEYR Summary Financial Statement that was provided to me by Heino Hintermeier. The translation is not complete. I have not provided the financial data but only the data relevant to Steyr weapon production. This information was inked in manually by some knowledgeable interested party long ago. It was translated word for word without any additions or explainations. It gives GREAT detail as to weapons manufacturing by STEYR from 1870 to 1900. Ubersee-Staaten seems to be a catch all for smaller over sea contracts. Also, note that all weapons were mostly called Mann or mannlichers (Prussian contracts for Mann 88 are obviously Gew 1888's etc). This translation was done to provide Beginning and Advanced STEYR Collectors, details of production not widely known before. As the data is analysed, please provide feedback for others to learn (and me too). John Wall, I'm afraid that this will raise more questions than it answers. BUT, at least we can ask the questions.
Darrell Goss

Download Attachment:
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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

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Edited by - dg13 on 09/16/2006 05:45:16 AM

jonk
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1743 Posts
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 08:28:10 AM
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Neat! If the original document is available, and can take a scan, or could be photographed, I'd love to see that too!

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"The government, faced by an inability to succesfully prosecute criminals in protection of its citizens, has instead sought to criminalize its citizens and prosecute them."--Jonathan Klein, 4-20-7.


MGMike
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1445 Posts
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 2:10:14 PM
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Darrell, thank you for posting this. Excellent information.

If this document was found after all these years, there is some hope that similar records covering 1900-1945 may also still exist.

M


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 6:57:02 PM
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jonk,
Here is the link to a portion of the document.

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=177643

dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


John Wall
Platinum Bullet Club



USA
2414 Posts
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 4:12:59 PM
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Darrell,
Outstanding work, sir!Many thanks for translating and posting this. I have no doubt that it took quite awhile, and it certainly is wothwhilke. Was there any post 1900 information? It would be cool to verify the size of the 1907 and 1908 Serbian Mauser orders.
Regards,
John


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 7:09:08 PM
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John,
This document stops at 6?/1900. I do have some info on the serbian mauser contract. There were 10,030 serbian carbines m1908 ordered from Steyr & delivered to the Arsenal Kragujevac from 1907 to 1909.
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


Prez1981
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
871 Posts
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 7:28:45 PM
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Great information! I am particularly interested in the Bulgarian contract for M95 rifles from 1898-1899. Did these have the regular Steyr 1898 or 1899 markings on the siderail? I have only seen post-1900 dates on the siderails, but have seen other interesting Bulgarian markings on rifles. I am mainly referring to M95's with Bulgarian lion proofs but no STEYR 19XX siderail or receiver rampant lion markings. I have seen a few examples with the regular Steyr marking on the receiver and bulgarian lions in place of the eagles on the side of the receiver and barrel.

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Edited by - Prez1981 on 09/07/2006 7:30:28 PM


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 8:18:10 PM
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On regular contracts from Steyr I would expect to see the date on the side rail. BUT, like you I have never seen a pre 1903 rifle. I have also never seen a regular Steyr marked rifle with bulgarian lions on the side.??? Was this rifle in original 8x50R? This seems very irregular to me. Post WWI in 8x56R???
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


montenegrin
Gunboards Member



91 Posts
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 09:03:27 AM
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Great work, Darrell! To me, a big surprise is that OEWG supplied several thousand revolvers to Greece. Steyr never made revolvers in quantity (Steyr-Pieper of the early 1890s was only made experimentaly) so my guess is these were actually French-made Chamelot-Delvigne supplied via Steyr.
Regards,
Jani


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 2:12:47 PM
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Jani my old friend!
I was surprized at a lot of these contracts! The Chassepot rifles and carbines (I suppose) were altered by Steyr for use before the M1871 carbine was adopted in 1876. My 1871 carbine was made by Steyr in 1878 used by Saxony. GREAT direct contract HISTORY.
Darrell


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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


heinz
Gunboards Member



Austria
29 Posts
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 06:04:55 AM
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This list dates from a file of the war ministry from the year 1918. This file lies in the Austrian Goverment Archives, department war archive. I have known this file for very long time. It is also known to most researchers in my opinion. The OeWG had to announce the takings and the profit from 1870 to 1914 opposite the ministry at the end of the war. The details always refer the budget year.

One reads the list, one will find for example 9,500 revolvers for Greece so. Interesting, isn't it! But caution, the numbers refer to the takings! The details of the list are really interesting, it must, however, understand. I think these are nice numbers.
Heinz

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servus aus Wien


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 06:21:50 AM
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Heinz,
I understand what you are saying but please define "takings" for me with another word or two.
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


heinz
Gunboards Member



Austria
29 Posts
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 06:37:22 AM
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Sorry,
I mean, they cash money - earnings or income of money
Heinz

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servus aus Wien


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 7:12:10 PM
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Heinz
I understand. The financial statement is not a part of this list. It did show what their profits were over the years. I wish I had the years 1901 to 1914 but was not supplied to me.
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


heinz
Gunboards Member



Austria
29 Posts
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 12:39:48 PM
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Alone for you,
the list from 1900/1901 to 1913/14:

Download Attachment:
85.3 KB

I think, you have now more questions now than answers.



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servus aus Wien


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 6:36:40 PM
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Heinz
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! Now we have it all! This is GREAT!!
Heinz do you have anything else along these lines from Steyr? My old eyes cannot make out some countries--is there anyway you can post with a picture more sharp?
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

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Edited by - dg13 on 09/16/2006 05:53:29 AM


dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/16/2006 : 06:05:34 AM
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I have a M1890 carbine in a different configuration (4 sling swivals)that is Lw/eagle/12 accepted. I thought this very strange until NOW. The 1911 contract confirms it's existance!! GREAT!!
dg13

FANTASTIC FIND HEINZ! THANK YOU AGAIN.

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 11:52:37 AM
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Odd about the small number of Gewehre 88 sold to Brazil? In 1892 the Brazilian government, with the prospect of civil war looming, hurriedly ordered Infanteriegewehre 88 and Karabiner 88 from Steyr and Loewe. Brazilian arms expert Adler Homero Fonseco de Castro informed me that his research indicates approximately 60,000 were obtained. I wonder how many Loewe sold them?

Senhor de Castro said they remained in use for many years with the reserves and that the Karabiner 88 were especially popular with mounted police units.

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member



USA
822 Posts
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 10:04:13 PM
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That is a hard question to answer since they use the "ubersee" catchall that is not specific. 57,000 was ordered by some small country in 1894. If it was definitely 1892 then Loewe would have gotten the majority of the order.
dg13

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"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"


JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector



USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 10/07/2006 : 01:24:22 AM
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Yo Darrell,

Thank you very much for sharing this excellent information with the rest of us! Absolutely great stuff! We can't thank you and Heino enough for making this information available.

My sincerest apologies for not having responded sooner. Between my business schedule and my Daughter's wedding I have fallen behind in many areas with this being just one of many items that have slipped through the cracks!

I will wade back in on this when I have had more time to properly digest so much critical information all at once. It's not often that this much material comes to the surface all at one time.

I did manage to put this thread where it properly belongs as a "stickied" item.

Warmest regards,

John
 

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Many thanks!
I am not sure how to read some entries, for example the 300,000+ 'M88' made for Prussia, do they refer to 'commission GEW88' rifles?
I find it highly unlikely they are M88 mannlichers, but the same code is used for the latter!
 

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Definitely Gewehr 88 (Kommissiongewehr), not Mannlicher M.88.
 

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I've come across several 1899 dated Gewehr 88 rifles over the years. And I seem to recall someone saying these were made for Romania or something. Anyone have any info? I dont recall the manufacturer but I wouldnt imagine any of the German arsenals would take the foreign contract, so im assuming it was Steyr
 

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Thanks for the great information! I found this a few years ago, but could never remember when. look at the numbers again, it seems my 73/77 was bought under a Persian contract in 1882. That makes tons of sense; i bought the rifle in Afghanistan so it must have been sitting there for a long time. The wood is kind of ratty, but the barrel is clean. probably not fired in 100 years or so. Just need to purchase the dies and I'm good to go! PS- Any help deciphering the underbarrel markings would be appreciated!





 

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The production figures given above give 12000 M88's exported to Chile in 1889-90, but no mention of the 1886's. Does anyone know how many and when these went to Chile?
Cheers,
Tony
 
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