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Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/07/2003 : 1:43:43 PM
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I am in the process of translating the new manuscript I received from Austrian author Heino Hintermeier. One interesting thing I came across is that he states that in 1914 Steyr was working on a second Rumanian contract and that their warehouse contained 75,000 Md. 1893 Mannlicher rifles. Many were only partially complete.

Apparently the completed rifles were issued in 6.5x53R - 6.5mm M.93 (rumanisches) Repetiergewehr - while the incomplete rifles were converted to 8x50R - 8mm M.93 (adaptiertes rumanisches) Repetiergewehr.

Also, many additional Md. 1893s were captured in 1916 when the Central Powers overran much of Rumania.

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein


John Wall
Platinum Bullet Club



USA
2414 Posts
Posted - 11/07/2003 : 8:10:10 PM
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Hi Paul,
I just happen to have some pictures of two Romanian M1893's in the collection at the Springfield Armory Museum. Both were part of the 1914 contract and are unit marked on their buttplates. One is doubled-marked, that it, to two different regiments, both the 63rd Infantry Regiment and the 28th Landwehr Infantry Regiment. The second is unit marked just to the 32nd Landwehr Infantry Regiment. One rifle, as you can see, is rather blackened and charred, having been in the middle of the Armory's terrible fire of the mid-1930's. But at least the fire burned away part of the handguard and exposed the A/H Army "W-n-Eagle-14" acceptance mark.
Best Regards,
John



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Edited by - John Wall on 11/07/2003 8:21:06 PM


Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/07/2003 : 9:42:53 PM
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Hope this comes out???

Download Attachment:
463 Bytes

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/07/2003 : 9:43:30 PM
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Nope, it didn't! Wish I knew what I was doing wrong???

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/07/2003 : 9:44:45 PM
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One LAST try!

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



DocAV
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



Australia
3278 Posts
Posted - 11/07/2003 : 11:25:39 PM
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Interesting WW I sideline, the 8mm Rumanisches M93 Gewehr: could these be the same as the 8mm Puschka M93/30 (Rumanisches) listed in a booklet of weapons used by or for the Germans during WW II (???).Note, I wrote 8mm and NOT 7,9mm!!
They are not a common piece, niether in Post-Cold War surplus, nor in pre-GCA 68 importations.

Regards, Doc AV





Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2003 : 07:06:41 AM
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Doc - according to WEAPONS OF THE THIRD REICH by Gander & Chamberlain, the Wehrmacht did indeed use ex-Austro-Hungarian 8mm Rumanian Mannlichers that they captured from the Yugoslavians (whew!). The book says the Yugos called them the "Puska 8mm M 93."

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2003 : 07:08:55 AM
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I also received some excellent color photographs of the 6.5mm and 8mm M.93 rifles from Hintermeier. Unfortunately my scanner is broken and I can't post them here. AS IF I CAN EVER POST PHOTOS HERE???

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2003 : 09:13:55 AM
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Am getting further into this manuscript and have discovered that besides the Yugos, the Austrians supplied a fair quantity of the 8mm M.93 (adaptiertes rumanisches) Repetiergewehr to the new nation of Czechoslovakia. Wonder what happened to them all

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



DocAV
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



Australia
3278 Posts
Posted - 11/08/2003 : 11:24:07 AM
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Dear Krag,
probably the Ex-Czech 8mmM93s went to Romania well before the Vz24 Contract?(ie, in the late 1920s-early 1930s, when the Czechs were disposing of all their 8x50R Steyr made M95s?
Another interesting problem to research. Could be that Romania still has both M93 in 6,5 AND 8mm in store somewhere...The Romanians did lose a lot in WW I, but by WW II were using 7,9mm Vz24 rifles (at least on the Russian Front)I have seen NO photos of Romanian troops in WW II with M93s...only vz24s and other germanic equipment (ZB30, MG34 etc.): Anybody out there with access to Romanian WW II photos or publications? Anybody been to Bucharest lately?

regards, Doc AV



gew88guy
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



France
6193 Posts
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 7:35:58 PM
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Sharp rascals !

They look almost identical to the Dutch versions.

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~ An honest tale speeds best,
being plainly told. ~

Who is this man and why is he trying to save my country?

liberalism is a mental disorder

Imperial German Regimental Markings

Das Heereswaffenampt




Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 7:43:05 PM
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Doc - I correspond with a Rumanian immigrant here in the USA. His father served in the reserves during WW2 and they were issued Md. 1893 Mannlichers. I am going to try to attach a (poor) photo of Rumanian troops in Russia circa 1942 armed with M.95/30 Mannlichers.

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43.89 KB

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein


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Edited by - Krag on 11/11/2003 7:44:11 PM


DocAV
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



Australia
3278 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 4:35:31 PM
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Dear krag,
I have that photo in a Book on War on the Eastern Front (by Westwood?)
I was under the impression that they were BULGARIAN troops, not Romanian? helmets are a Adrian m16 (nearest camera) and "other" (could be either romanian or Bulgarian). The ZB26 could be either a CMC (Rumanian Built) or a ZB export. A Lot of attributuions in "coffee table" books can be wrong at times.

Regards,
Doc AV



Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 5:40:42 PM
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The Rumanian guy I was talking about in my earlier post swears that this is a photo of Rumanian troops. He identifies the helmets as "Dutch pattern."

Don't know what else to tell you?

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein


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Edited by - Krag on 11/12/2003 5:42:09 PM


Devo
Gunboards Premium Member



USA
119 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 5:47:57 PM
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Have to go with Krag on this one; the Romanians used the M16 Adrian, then switched to the Dutch pattern in the late 30s. The Bulgarians used the German M16 in WWI, and their own pattern M36 in WWII (similar to the Germans only more rounded). I haven't seen any evidence of the Bulgarians using either Adrian or Dutch pattern helmets.

-Devo

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"Are we not men?"


Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 7:15:57 PM
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Doc - go here and you can see photos of Rumanian troops in WW2. Unfortunately the photos won't open for me but the "Dutch style" helmets are much in evidence.

http://www.worldwar2.ro/

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



3553 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 8:47:36 PM
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Here's a photo of a WW2 Bulgarian soldier. Note the different style helmet.

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"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein



medion
Gunboards Premium Member



Netherlands
138 Posts
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 06:50:20 AM
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Hi Krag,

The helmet is the Dutch M34. The Rumanians called it the "Casca Olandeza" (model 1939)
Regards
Jan
 
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