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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was shooting my Thompson with Winchester and Remington ball ACP ammo. I had a squib load that stuck the bullet in the barrel yesterday. Shooting full auto, the next round didn't fully stay in the chamber when it went off. The barrel looks like it has a ring where the bullet was stuck. Does this ruin the barrel? Does anybody have any suggestions on checking for squib loads? On rifle ammo, one can shake rounds and listen to the sound that the gunpowder makes. On the good side of things, my Maxim 08/15 ran perfect and like it was brand new.

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I don't know of any fail-proof way of preventing squib loads; even carefully watching your own reloads can't foresee a bum primer, bad powder, etc.... It certainly sucks to damage a transferable gun, but the ringed barrel isn't as bad as it might seem.
I have an M1 TSMG that has had a ringed barrel on it since I bought back in 1999. (I didn't ring it.) It suffers no lack of accuracy nor functionality. Likewise, my Ciener .22 kit isn't affected by it. FWIW, the .45 cap is a relatively low pressure round and the TSMG is built like a tank; I've had a spare OEM barrel in my parts box for years and have yet to see any reason to swap out the barrels.
 

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Sorry to hear that. It happens a lot more than owners will admit, and with vintage 9mm SMGs as well. Fortunately '28A1 barrels can be found and the barrel replaced, which will have to be done to get full value for the gun when you sell it. Ringed barrel on a SMG is not a positive sales point!
Now you don't have to worry about it any more, although the blowing the case of follow up round with a slug stuck in the barrel isn't much fun. I'd suggest buying a couple original comparable barrels now while they are not too expensive and also are available so you have them when you need. FWIW
 

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FWIW, when I pick up a new box of carry ammo I weigh all the rounds on a digital scale and sort them. The rounds that are at the top of the bell curve are loaded into the magazine, the outliers get test fired. So far I've had two factory rounds (a .380 & a .45) that were a couple of grains under the norm. They went "pop"! Not really practical to do this for an SMG unless it's defensive ammo load.
 

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I had this happen with my M1A1. Shooting reloads (auto) the gun stopped running. I pulled the bolt back and out came an empty case. I did a quick chamber check and the chamber was clear.My next round was like an m80 went off close to my head. All that was left was the base of a .45 acp case. Naturally I stopped and did a visual down the bore. No daylight came through. A stiff cleaning rod revealed blockage. A metal rod pounded down the bore and out came two lead bullets. I was fortunate it happened about 1" above the chamber and my barrel did not ring. No adverse effect on the gun. The only positive way to check is weigh your ammo before firing.
 

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Does anybody have any suggestions on checking for squib loads?
well, if you have a LOT, LOT OF TIME on your hands, you can weight each and every single round to see if it falls within a certain weight parameter.

if you know what to feel for "squib" rounds can be caught even in full auto. 1) you feel a lower then normal recoil all of a sudden, and the bolt doesn't cycle or if it does it doesn't go all the way back and picks up a round that doesn't fully go into battery, like you experienced.

in semi it's a bit easier, you get a audible "pop", not the typical exposition you would normally hear, no recoil that you would normally would expect, and the bolt doesn't cycle
 

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Unfortunately when the rounds have so little powder weight to bullet/brass mass ratio it is pretty much impossible to to determine if there is a light charge via weight on a completed round. The 45ACP with 230gr ball is a good example since the powder charge depending on type can be as low as 5gr out of total weight so only 3 gr light is in the tolerance of the case and/or bullet weight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you Ed an d Mongo for your information. It makes me want to reload for the Thompson and double check it all. I will not Shoot Wolf Ammo because I had a nice numbers matching Ballister Molina (sp) damaged by a squib load. My thinking that Winchester and Remington brass cased would have a much higher quality control performed on them.

SFC, my hearing is limited, and add muffs for protecting what I have left, leaves me at a disadvantage to get my finger off the trigger in time. My 28a1 runs very fast.

Another treat for me is the fact that I shoot left handed because of a defective right eye. Makes these surprises even a little more exciting.

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Its really depressing to read that US Major Factory ammo has light powder charges.
There is NO excuse for this! Hard to believe it......
After 50+ years of this stuff, NEVER thought I'd read about this....
Was gonna actually BUY a box of Winchester .45 ACP ammo to test fire my
upcoming .45 ACP Boberg pistol, but will resort to my Trusty Handloads instead.

GONRA loads 9mm and .45 ACP SMG blasting ammo on a Dillon Progressive.
Make sure you select powders (HS6, 231 for example) that meter accurately.
Setup lighting so you can peer down into the case to eyeball EVERY powder charge
before seating the bullet.

We're all in a Big Hurry these days, and the Handloading Ammo Hobby was really designed
for the "Good Olde Days" without endless Modern Distractions.
So, when loading singly, its a nice idea to weigh powder charges on an Automatic Electronic Scale,
move the pan to your Beam Scale to double check.

Also, make SURE "the wife, 3 kids, 2 cats and a hamster" are all in slumber land
so you can concentrate on the task at hand.....
 

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I had a squib load in a marlin Camp 9 about 30 years back I ringed the barrel and it shot great just a ring in the bore. if you looked for it, it was noticeable. I had a out of battery discharge and it damaged the mag/trigger group. I contacted Marlin and they told me to send it to them, I did and they sent me a quote on its repair, they needed to replace the barrel due it being "unsafe" due to the ring. They did and I ended up with a new barrel I shot the old barrel for 25 years with no problems.
 

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right, we're gonna load 100 rds per hour, and shoot 900 rds per minute! :) let me know how that works out. If you can afford a $15,000 Tommy gun, you can afford a $1000 Dillon progressive loading press, which has a powder checking position, and shuts down the press if it detects anything that's out of spec. Better figure on "mining' the dirt berms for lead and casting your own bullets, with a Star progressive sizer-luber. google for a forum called "cast boolits"

there's too much variation in case and bullet weights for weighing each rd. anytime you get a weird discharge, of course, you look down the BORE. the chamber, by itself, tells you little or nothing.

ww2, I think it was, Frankfort Arsenal had to check millions of rds for bad loads. they rigged up a canvas, rolling ramp, and it was 100% at finding the rds without powder charges. Centrical force made the uncharged rds fall off of the opposite side of the ramp as the in-spec ammo.
 

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I would definitely contact the ammunition manufacturer to report the squib load and the damage it caused to your weapon.
There might be other squib rounds within the ammunition lot and it's possible that the lot needs to be recalled.
I would press them to replace the ammunition with a known good lot and expect reimbursement for the repair costs of the weapon.
I know the ammunition manufacturers are working hard to get the supply of ammunition out to the shooting public but there is zero tolerance for defective ammunition. Particularly form one of the big name manufacturers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
ME26245,
You are right that I should contact the manufacture. I would have contacted them if I knew the brand of the round that caused the damage. The magazines were loaded with loose rounds that were a mix of Winchester and Remington. I don't know which brand caused the damage.

Tribrothers
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Simca,
I wish the WWII Auto Ordnance Thompson only cost me 15K. Just because I once had the money to buy the Thompson doesn't mean I currently have a 1K to buy a progressive loader. The past 5 years have not been kind to me. I have learned over the years to never go to a shoot with loaded magazines. As far as 900 rounds per minute, that doesn't happen in my Thompson. The time reloading the magazines keeps shooters from running the ammo to fast and keeps the Thompson cooler. Currently when shooting her, I ask for those shooting with me to bring their own Winchester or Remington brass cased 230 grain full metal jacket ammo. We then shoot the older ammo that I have properly stored first and use the newly boxed ammo for future shoots.

I do have nice single stage loading equipment for shooting Japanese 6.5mm in my type 96 and someday my type 11 for when I can afford a firing pin, my Chauchats in 8mm Lebel, my M2 30cal carbine, 30.06 for my 1917a1, 8mm for my Maxim 08/15 and last and least my Reising M50 that started all the madness .

Tribrothers
 

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I didn't say how MANY minutes. :) you aint got enough mags to keep it running for even one minute, that's sad. Maybe you'll have to sell it and downgrade to a Sten? Since it's just noisemaking, why not?
more than noise making,

and I do have enough mags ;)

full auto is not always about using it as a bullet hose, some of us actually like to hit the target with them, and have learned how to used them somewhat effectively


potentially a squib could happen to any firearm,
 

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This is to reply about the manufacture of the ammo that ringed the barrel of the camp 9 I have. I was shooting MY reloaded ammo missed the powder in it and the one that fired out of battery may have been caused by a weak case. The camp 9 I got is an very early model, I have been reloading for 40 years and I have seen factory and arsenal loaded ammo fail also. I have loaded every thing from 22 hornet to 45/70. I should have mentioned that in the text of the last post but failed to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Simca

I have enough drums and mags to run over 3000 rounds through the 1928a1 without ever touching one twice. Just because I have the mags doesn't mean I am stupid or reckless enough to run a historical firearm until it is severely damaged. Lyman1903 understands why everybody doesn't run out and buy Macs and Stens and ignores all the Historical machine guns and subguns. It is interesting to me to study, work on and shoot firearms that many are working off of 100 year old designs.

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It might be useful to remember that most of us who own Full-auto didn't buy them recently. Today's prices are much, much higher than what I paid for my precious guns. What I paid for all of my machine guns could not buy a single Thompson today.
 
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