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the only thing russian about these rifles is the common terrible blueing, shellaced stocks and mix up of parts. totally german manufactured, period. nobody can say for sure that any one of these was captured(no capture papers!, hah!). all they can say is that they were refurbed by the russians so "russian capture" is as inaccurate as calling a matching k98 a vet bringback(unless you have the papers and s.n. listed, period).

it sure seems that over time there has been a general acceptance of a non-papered k98s in this country as bring back. with all the papered bring backs that came home...which are the true holy grails. over time the papers were lost, thrown out, etc., etc., etc. anything less than a papered bringback should never be considered in the same league as a papered k98? it is time for people to stop defending any matching k98 in this country as the cream of the crop because it is not if it doesn't have papers but...it seems it is widely accepted.
 

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I agree with Simson 100%, but having said that, sometimes a collector is forced into RC's - the extreme drought on GOOD undicked with original Kar98k's here in Australia forced me to purchase 2 RC's - a Sauer 1937 and a BCD 1943. Both are about as matching as an RC can be - receiver, barrel, front sight base match. NOTHING else does.

I selected my 2 RC's from 12 others - my BCD is untouched blue and metal with NO X mark (Sergei the Hohol must have forgotten to f&^K with this one) and the Sauer is as good, though a little matte on the receiver (I think it could be paint - haven't got it home STILL!) though all metal is great. No import markings.

I have gone to a LOT of bother to de-Ukrainify these - bought original code specific parts to rebuild them to as close as possible. All that will be as Hohol rebuilt them will be the barrelled actions.

I like them for the history they represent (having now Russian blood in the family sparks that interest), and for the fact I managed to rummage through a few to get a REALLY good pair (not typical reblued over pits, reblued over oil/grease, reblued over crud that most of them have), but in no way do they even come close to my all-matching original Portuguese contract M937 or any other ORIGINAL Kar98k I have owned before - no contest!

If I COULD find decent originals, I would have them - the prices for them have soared to well over $1000 now for a bolt MM. Most that CLAIM to be original here have renumbered bolts or repro parts (rods, hoods, stocks). For now, these 2 fill a gap, and to be honest, it has been fun chasing down th code specific parts to retrovert them! (especially the stocks). Still need a matched to itself e/214 bolt for that '37 Sauer though :D

Without doubt, the 2 favourites in my collection are the all matching 100% original Portuguese Contract M.937 and my all-matching NON-RC vet-bringback CYQ 1944 P-38.

Yes, RC's in their "As Ukraine F*&KED them state" are pretty close to junk. Finding a decent one and retrofitting one is a lot of fun, and make fine shooters. Having again said that, I would much prefer a decent RC to a scrubbed and restamped crud Yugo rebuild or a pinged Romanian or Bulgarian. All Yugo guns regardless of their original heritage leave me VERY VERY cold.

To each their own.



 

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Weelll, I missed out on the start of this and have just spent over 60+ min reading thru it all. :eek:
This argument/disagreement among those so far involved - and now me - is an ongoing, never changing one!!! :rolleyes:

I have not made enuf posts to please these "expertz," so of course I'm Not a bonifide collector of anything WW2, especially German! I don't qualify for that title since I didn't buy my first K98k untill the summer of 1953 from an uncle who had brought it back from Germany at the end of WW 2, and I used it to hunt deer with for the next 5 years. I quit using it because I had bought a K 43 and liked it better. By about this time I also had a couple of other 98ks, 2 MP 40s, an MP 44, a Thompson, a Luger, 5 or 6 P.38s, an M1 Carbine, a Garand & an 03A3.
I have original, matching, vet bring back & not so, non import marked k98ks.
I would have more, but the ex wife & boyfriend stole 36 rifles, pistols & shotguns in 1971 - mostly K98ks & G/K 43s. Since that time I have replaced what few I could find and afford, which wasn't many!

When the imports began to come in in the 80s I bought a lot for resale. I always sorted thru and kept some really nice nearly matching ones for myself. When the RC X marked stuff began to come in I got a few of them.
Then about 3 yrs ago I fell into a deal where I got the pick of 400 disassembled K98ks, mostly RCs, for very good prices. I also got to pick thru the parts bins to get factory matching parts, even found some matching numbers. The end result is that I now have over 50 rifles that have the X & import marks or import marks with no X and a some with neither from that pile. I tried to find rifles I wanted without the X and if possible w/o import marks. I found some, maby 1/3 of what I bought.
The one thing they have in common is that ALL of them have All matching factory acceptance proof marks on every part that should have it.

On the other hand if I had bought Only matching original, non import marked K98ks in that time period for the money I spent on these 50+ "non collectable" rifles I would probably have 5 or MABY 7 rifles if I had gotten lucky and none of them would be S/27G, S/42G, S/243G, bsw 37 or 38. I have ALL the S/27 & S/243 variants except the Ks. I do have an S/42K. I also have 25+ 660/bnz marked rifles.
Unfortunately NONE of these rifles are "collectable" according to the self styled "expertz" who have so vocaly expressed their opinion on the subjekt.
I would like for any of them to quote me the dictionary by title, year & page nr that defines collectable items in a manner that excludes the RCs!
What is not collectable to them, and perhaps their small circle of friends has NO bearing what is truly collectable - in ANY catagory! It merely defines what THEY consider collectable! AND what they would like to convince everyone else should be so - But "AIN'T!"
Of course there is also the value thing repeatedly jumped on be it refurbed cars or well worn coins with the inference that some think the RCs have as high a value as a bring back. NOT SO!!! and NO One on this thread who favors RCs has claimed anything of the sort! Altho value has been going up!
The RCs do however allow both the beginning collector or those at the next step or 2 up the ladder to buy rifles with certain mfgr code & date they are interested in for a price they can afford. Very few on this or any other gun board can afford to spend $2000+ for an all matching pristine K98k. They have other obligations that even prevent them saving up that amount of $$$ to beable to buy one in the next couple of years. For them their only immediate hope of owning a WW 2 German rifle, especially one of the early/rare codes/dates is to buy an RC. My thought is GO FOR IT!!! Some years down the line when you can afford $2+K for an nice matching original, buy it too!
Sarge
 

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well put sarge. it seems every so often someone has to bring up the ah, err, junk garbage comment just to try and keep the little rifle down regarding interest from new people. then, there are some other idiots who simply post one or two line statements and they are usually cocky. yeah, you know who i mean. said persons never show a photo, ask a question or contribute anything to the thread other than consitent sarcasim. during such times these particular people ride the coat tails of experienced people like simson and follow him no matter where he goes with his thoughts of a subject. many times there are flames towards others by a certain couple people and they never stop. this is allowed to happen because those people are knowledgable in certain or a vast array of the german military rifle topic. recently i post "wulfey" on a thread and it was immediately deemed as inappropriate and i was requested to delete it and so i did. i even added a smiley face because it was for fun. yet this thread continues with an exponential rate compared to the one word that i said. these current comments are not implied as fun. those responsible should be lectured and held responsible for their comments just like everyone else, period. now with that off my chest i still have the same respect for the knowledge that said perps have for the subject. peace out.
 

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Sarge has to be the longest winded blowhard on any of the forums (never contributes a worthwhile “original” thought or advice), worst he is probably the world record holder for collecting the 98k and not having a clue to the subject at hand.. He has by his own admission been at it 3x as long as I have and is a total incompetent-

As to an expert status, you might note I have never claimed such, and no one I know ever has. This title of “expert” and “elitist” is a derogatory title lame dickcheeses like Hannah and “sarge the nincompoop” use when they have no back up to their argument.

Sarge just outlined why his position on the rc has no merit, he by his own acknowledgment states he is a longtime rc turdmonger, and often posts his “findings” of his study of the rc to the forums (usually on GK where there is no one to challenge his nonsense since Hambone and most experienced collectors left), often in high comedic fashion.. his infamous G29o Israeli 98k befuddlement (he went on about Law/Backbone over this rifle being proof of a 1938 Steyr 98k- of all the problems with Backbone he chooses something that is accurate!) is legendary as is his nearly as comical approach to the “X Depot” only found on the rc..

Seeing as Sarge wants to play who knows what I will actually take some time to ridicule “sarge” on his latest foray into stupid land regarding the “X” depot.

On another thread-

Weelll, I missed out on the start of this and have just spent over 60+ min reading thru it all. :eek:
This argument/disagreement among those so far involved - and now me - is an ongoing, never changing one!!! :rolleyes:

I have not made enuf posts to please these "expertz," so of course I'm Not a bonifide collector of anything WW2, especially German! I don't qualify for that title since I didn't buy my first K98k untill the summer of 1953 from an uncle who had brought it back from Germany at the end of WW 2, and I used it to hunt deer with for the next 5 years. I quit using it because I had bought a K 43 and liked it better. By about this time I also had a couple of other 98ks, 2 MP 40s, an MP 44, a Thompson, a Luger, 5 or 6 P.38s, an M1 Carbine, a Garand & an 03A3.
I have original, matching, vet bring back & not so, non import marked k98ks.
I would have more, but the ex wife & boyfriend stole 36 rifles, pistols & shotguns in 1971 - mostly K98ks & G/K 43s. Since that time I have replaced what few I could find and afford, which wasn't many!

When the imports began to come in in the 80s I bought a lot for resale. I always sorted thru and kept some really nice nearly matching ones for myself. When the RC X marked stuff began to come in I got a few of them.
Then about 3 yrs ago I fell into a deal where I got the pick of 400 disassembled K98ks, mostly RCs, for very good prices. I also got to pick thru the parts bins to get factory matching parts, even found some matching numbers. The end result is that I now have over 50 rifles that have the X & import marks or import marks with no X and a some with neither from that pile. I tried to find rifles I wanted without the X and if possible w/o import marks. I found some, maby 1/3 of what I bought.
The one thing they have in common is that ALL of them have All matching factory acceptance proof marks on every part that should have it.

On the other hand if I had bought Only matching original, non import marked K98ks in that time period for the money I spent on these 50+ "non collectable" rifles I would probably have 5 or MABY 7 rifles if I had gotten lucky and none of them would be S/27G, S/42G, S/243G, bsw 37 or 38. I have ALL the S/27 & S/243 variants except the Ks. I do have an S/42K. I also have 25+ 660/bnz marked rifles.
Unfortunately NONE of these rifles are "collectable" according to the self styled "expertz" who have so vocaly expressed their opinion on the subjekt.
I would like for any of them to quote me the dictionary by title, year & page nr that defines collectable items in a manner that excludes the RCs!
What is not collectable to them, and perhaps their small circle of friends has NO bearing what is truly collectable - in ANY catagory! It merely defines what THEY consider collectable! AND what they would like to convince everyone else should be so - But "AIN'T!"
Of course there is also the value thing repeatedly jumped on be it refurbed cars or well worn coins with the inference that some think the RCs have as high a value as a bring back. NOT SO!!! and NO One on this thread who favors RCs has claimed anything of the sort! Altho value has been going up!
The RCs do however allow both the beginning collector or those at the next step or 2 up the ladder to buy rifles with certain mfgr code & date they are interested in for a price they can afford. Very few on this or any other gun board can afford to spend $2000+ for an all matching pristine K98k. They have other obligations that even prevent them saving up that amount of $$$ to beable to buy one in the next couple of years. For them their only immediate hope of owning a WW 2 German rifle, especially one of the early/rare codes/dates is to buy an RC. My thought is GO FOR IT!!! Some years down the line when you can afford $2+K for an nice matching original, buy it too!
Sarge
 

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Sarge has to be the longest winded blowhard on any of the forums (never contributes a worthwhile “original” thought or advice), worst he is probably the world record holder for collecting the 98k and not having a clue to the subject at hand.. He has by his own admission been at it 3x as long as I have and is a total incompetent-

As to an expert status, you might note I have never claimed such, and no one I know ever has. This title of “expert” and “elitist” is a derogatory title lame dickcheeses like Hannah and “sarge the nincompoop” use when they have no back up to their argument.

Sarge just outlined why his position on the rc has no merit, he by his own acknowledgment states he is a longtime rc turdmonger, and often posts his “findings” of his study of the rc to the forums (usually on GK where there is no one to challenge his nonsense since Hambone and most experienced collectors left), often in high comedic fashion.. his infamous G29o Israeli 98k befuddlement (he went on about Law/Backbone over this rifle being proof of a 1938 Steyr 98k- of all the problems with Backbone he chooses something that is accurate!) is legendary as is his nearly as comical approach to the “X Depot” only found on the rc..

Seeing as Sarge wants to play who knows what I will actually take some time to ridicule “sarge” on his latest foray into stupid land regarding the “X” depot.

On another thread-

you are soo "laughable" must be lonely at the top, seems to me like you like to say ((("never contributes a worthwhile “original” thought or advice"))) about anyones opinion that disagree's with your own. you like to play lord of the mauser, and act as if you set the standards and all must fall in-line... well the masses have spoken with their $$$$$$ .... R/C K98's have gone up in value since first introduced a few yrs back. I am glad this urk's you as much as it does, they ARE german manufactured K98's and are fully functional weapons made from the best actions and parts ever made. The fact that you call them junk just goes to show how little you understand about the appreciation of fine firearms. Seems you like wall hangers to just look at with all your matching little parts that you will never shoot. Your shooters probably come from WAL-MART as you wont own a R/C and i highly doubt you would take out your all matching guns for a leisure shoot or hunt... R/C k-98's are fully functional as well as collectible guns, even your so called friends who say they agree with you OWN THEM>>>>>> HAH!!!!!!!!!!! FIGURE THAT ONE OUT THERE TURBO..........they probably dont want to upset you, so they speak in code.
 

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Your bag fall off? Burst a seam?

Sarge is a longtime idiot and your reality check is that if you find yourself on the same page as Sarge you need to pucker up, double bag and re-evaluate quick.



you are soo "laughable" must be lonely at the top, seems to me like you like to say ((("never contributes a worthwhile “original” thought or advice"))) about anyones opinion that disagree's with your own. you like to play lord of the mauser, and act as if you set the standards and all must fall in-line... well the masses have spoken with their $$$$$$ .... R/C K98's have gone up in value since first introduced a few yrs back. I am glad this urk's you as much as it does, they ARE german manufactured K98's and are fully functional weapons made from the best actions and parts ever made. The fact that you call them junk just goes to show how little you understand about the appreciation of fine firearms. Seems you like wall hangers to just look at with all your matching little parts that you will never shoot. Your shooters probably come from WAL-MART as you wont own a R/C and i highly doubt you would take out your all matching guns for a leisure shoot or hunt... R/C k-98's are fully functional as well as collectible guns, even your so called friends who say they agree with you OWN THEM>>>>>> HAH!!!!!!!!!!! FIGURE THAT ONE OUT THERE TURBO..........they probably dont want to upset you, so they speak in code.
 

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i have to vouch for Vulch :)D) on this one...in Oz you take what you can get...if you can afford it lol
It aint just OZ Wilhelm. You can only buy things that are offered. Sure we have lots of Stuff for sale in this country but a big portion is humped up over priced crap that no one in their right mind would bid on. The good stuff is filtered through channels you and I seldom get to see. The really top end stuff has a bigger finders fee than a good honest bolt mis-match will bring. Remember the Golden Rule( The Ones with the Gold make the rules).All the best. Sunfish
 

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Ahhh, what the hell, I'll jump into this fray with my $0.02...

Look for a begining collector now a days, the pickins' are generally slim, and prices have dramatically shot up. If you want to dip your toes into the 98k waters, a RC is a good choice, they are relatively around, and are relatively cheap.

The analogy to muscle cars is pretty good....sure, there are lots of rebuilt/repainted/refurbed muscle cars around, where only some of the body, the frame and some interior are original. Many of them are pretty, a lot of people would love to own one. Someone starting out wanting to collect/drive muscle cars will most likely start with one of these....but as time goes on, and knowledge is gained, and research is done, and you watch the markets many who stick with the mania will realize the real good stuff are the original, unmessed with cars. Sure they ain't cheap, but they rise in value much quicker, and are always highly desireable, and there is something about an factory original 68 Mustang that is way different to the car lover than any souped up umteenth rebuilt super pimp Mustangs....

SimsonSuhl may be blunt, but he is right on. Nothing wrong with cutting your teeth on an RC, nothing wrong with buying scarce code RC's to fill a hole (the one RC I regret not buying was a full Gew 98 conversion....). Look, the world of real quality, original 98k's isn't for the faint of heart...a lot of money (unless you luck into them, which I have been lucky enough to do, it helps when you have a network, and 98k values are depressed in your area), and A LOT of humpers and carnival barkers...easy to get burned unless you know your stuff.

I started collecting 98k's not long after SimsonSuhl, about 1987/88...I have been VERY lucky with my buying, and have a lot of nice rifles. I personally would not buy an RC, unless it is something I really want to use to fill a hole. I d have one RC, but its one of the IO LSR sniper repros....and I do kick myself not buying that Gew conversion. I could say that the romantic notion that a particular rifle was captured at Stalingrad, but really, how many RC's were captured in overrun arsenals and depots, and sent to Mother Russia for the RC treatment?

IMHO (and its just that, strictly my opinion) I find no real collector value in RC's, and I wouldn't buy one except under extraordinary circumstances...but they DO have a place, especially with begining collectors. They have been a two edged sword though, while driving up collector interest, and consequently the value of the rifles in my collection, it also makes it tough to score that matching bringback for $250!!!!

Good luck with it, have fun. Buy Law's Backbone of the Wehrmacht for a great overview and a lot if decent info on 98k's, but realize it has many problems/gaps, and it is NOT a bible. Buy a nice RC, take it apart, love it, learn about it. If you get a little crazy, strip and redo the stock, and start searching for "correct" parts. Be forewarned....you will have the desire to start getting different codes, different years, and the drive for the perfect matching specimen will start! I started out with one, got Laws book to research it, now have over 30...they are more addicting than crack! I have skipped many a electric or gas or whatever bill to buy that next specimen....don't say no one warned you!!!
 

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the analogy to muscle cars doesnt really hold water, as R/C K98's are "made from all original german manufactured parts", the referance to cars was that they were made from cheap inferior replacement parts from 3rd world production countries.

I think it's a safe assumption people like K98's for 2 reasons... 1) the fact that it was and still is essentially the best bolt action rifle ever produced "production rifle ofcoarse" AND 2) the fact that is was the standard arm of the Nazi's which is such a HUGE part of history. The fact that a standard R/C k98 is essentially still one of the best bolt action rifles you can buy, and that the majority of them still have all the Nazi marks present... Well um hate to say it, this satisfys the majority of collectors, sure everyone wants to fill holes with matching ones also, but that does not make the R/C any less collectible than any other rifles one wants to collect... Isnt Rocket Science here, those who have narrowed their collections to only pristine all matching examples are the exception NOT the rule, for their are no rules in collecting... except the 1 golden rule, always buy for less than you can sell for. given the fact that R/C's continually rise in price, they have proven themselves to be quite collectible, as well as should be respected on ALL their individual Merits.
 

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Plenty of good stuff in the US, and BiO could do a testimonial about his experiences I am sure.. it takes effort and a willingness to participate in the hobby.

It’s like a good job or a wife, if you sit at home waiting for either to knock on the door or an ad to show up on Gunboards you will probably find neither.

Anything worthwhile takes an effort, you have to meet people and participate in the hobby. You want to meet a woman, go to Church or get a good job, hobbies women like or go to college at night.. you want a rifle make friends and participate in the hobby.

Some advice, try and make friends in the hobby, make it known what you want and in the beginning what you are willing to pay for it- don't be a cheapskate.. If a real collector offers you something that is interesting and reasonably priced- take it and don't haggle or be a pest (don’t worry over squeezing the best deal possible). Later other rifles will be upgraded and you will be on his list, if you were hassle free or a non-idiot he will very likely go back to you (I know if I sell a rifle to an idiot and he haggles or makes things complicated- guess what I don't deal with him again)
Or go to a show and set up a table, just for display if you have nothing to sale. Some work the doors, or do pre-opening trades.

In the end it takes effort. - or you can buy rc's and take your chances on the trader? (with a thousand other guys- just like going to bars hunting for women outside Camp Pendleton with a high & tight- good luck..)
 

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Well said, I agree with much you wrote, - and a few others- they have a narrow purpose in the hobby, even for me.. I use their data to further my work.

Try finding a VERY few 98k's? 35 ERMA or Borsigwalde are nearly impossible to find original, even I can understand that decision. For the most part they are mud puddle guns and rifles for sporting though and I wouldn't own one for any other purpose.


Ahhh, what the hell, I'll jump into this fray with my $0.02...

Look for a begining collector now a days, the pickins' are generally slim, and prices have dramatically shot up. If you want to dip your toes into the 98k waters, a RC is a good choice, they are relatively around, and are relatively cheap.

The analogy to muscle cars is pretty good....sure, there are lots of rebuilt/repainted/refurbed muscle cars around, where only some of the body, the frame and some interior are original. Many of them are pretty, a lot of people would love to own one. Someone starting out wanting to collect/drive muscle cars will most likely start with one of these....but as time goes on, and knowledge is gained, and research is done, and you watch the markets many who stick with the mania will realize the real good stuff are the original, unmessed with cars. Sure they ain't cheap, but they rise in value much quicker, and are always highly desireable, and there is something about an factory original 68 Mustang that is way different to the car lover than any souped up umteenth rebuilt super pimp Mustangs....

SimsonSuhl may be blunt, but he is right on. Nothing wrong with cutting your teeth on an RC, nothing wrong with buying scarce code RC's to fill a hole (the one RC I regret not buying was a full Gew 98 conversion....). Look, the world of real quality, original 98k's isn't for the faint of heart...a lot of money (unless you luck into them, which I have been lucky enough to do, it helps when you have a network, and 98k values are depressed in your area), and A LOT of humpers and carnival barkers...easy to get burned unless you know your stuff.

I started collecting 98k's not long after SimsonSuhl, about 1987/88...I have been VERY lucky with my buying, and have a lot of nice rifles. I personally would not buy an RC, unless it is something I really want to use to fill a hole. I d have one RC, but its one of the IO LSR sniper repros....and I do kick myself not buying that Gew conversion. I could say that the romantic notion that a particular rifle was captured at Stalingrad, but really, how many RC's were captured in overrun arsenals and depots, and sent to Mother Russia for the RC treatment?

IMHO (and its just that, strictly my opinion) I find no real collector value in RC's, and I wouldn't buy one except under extraordinary circumstances...but they DO have a place, especially with begining collectors. They have been a two edged sword though, while driving up collector interest, and consequently the value of the rifles in my collection, it also makes it tough to score that matching bringback for $250!!!!

Good luck with it, have fun. Buy Law's Backbone of the Wehrmacht for a great overview and a lot if decent info on 98k's, but realize it has many problems/gaps, and it is NOT a bible. Buy a nice RC, take it apart, love it, learn about it. If you get a little crazy, strip and redo the stock, and start searching for "correct" parts. Be forewarned....you will have the desire to start getting different codes, different years, and the drive for the perfect matching specimen will start! I started out with one, got Laws book to research it, now have over 30...they are more addicting than crack! I have skipped many a electric or gas or whatever bill to buy that next specimen....don't say no one warned you!!!
 

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the analogy to muscle cars doesnt really hold water, as R/C K98's are "made from all original german manufactured parts", the referance to cars was that they were made from cheap inferior replacement parts from 3rd world production countries.

I think it's a safe assumption people like K98's for 2 reasons... 1) the fact that it was and still is essentially the best bolt action rifle ever produced "production rifle ofcoarse" AND 2) the fact that is was the standard arm of the Nazi's which is such a HUGE part of history. The fact that a standard R/C k98 is essentially still one of the best bolt action rifles you can buy, and that the majority of them still have all the Nazi marks present... Well um hate to say it, this satisfys the majority of collectors, sure everyone wants to fill holes with matching ones also, but that does not make the R/C any less collectible than any other rifles one wants to collect... Isnt Rocket Science here, those who have narrowed their collections to only pristine all matching examples are the exception NOT the rule, for their are no rules in collecting... except the 1 golden rule, always buy for less than you can sell for. given the fact that R/C's continually rise in price, they have proven themselves to be quite collectible, as well as should be respected on ALL their individual Merits.
Mmmm, well, you know what they say about opinions, they are just like a$$holes, everyone has one....and my opinion is just as valid as yours. My opinion is I don't care for RC's, and I wouldn't buy one except for certain circumstances. Thats my opinion, and YMMV. They are very acceptable to many others, especially novices. And of course everyone is free to collect whatever they want....some people actually LIKE sporterized 98k's (heathens)

As to the assertion that the 98k was essentially the best bolt action ever produced, that will get some argument. I dearly love the 98k, but wouldn't be bold enough to make that statement. The Lee Enfield is a damn fine rifle, and many believe that the **** on closing feature makes for more rapid reloading, not to mention the 10 round magazine. A good British rifle squad in WWI often fooled the Germans into thinking they were under fire from a Vickers. The reality is, you'd be hard pressed to find a stronger action than the Japanese Arisaka. The 1903 Springfield also has a place near to the heart of many bolt action collectors (Yes, based on the 98 action, but not a 98k, and a beautiful rifle). The "Best" moniker is hard to prove.

Bottom line people collect what they like. As it should be.

Oh, and while it may have been the standard arm of the "nazi's", it was also quite popular with the German Army, the Luftwaffe, and Kriegsmarine too....
 

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"refinished, reblued, electro-penciled original German manufactured parts" assembled in no apparent order or purpose.

Some are defaced or scrubbed, some with little prep work before re-blue in typical soviet fashion..

By your standards, a woman is a virgin again after a shower?


as R/C K98's are "made from all original german manufactured parts", .
 

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people pay big money for restored muscle cars and don't think they don't. try and find a fender for a '67 coronet R/T. yep, just try.

aftermarket 3rd world made classic parts are just that. once painted they make the car a beauty and people pay for "HAVING" that luxury.

rc's? only their exterior is ugly. same action. same sites. same bolt. same stock. same factory. same design. same purpose. historic value.

now, is beauty only skin deep? yes, but what is under that skin(blueing & shellac) is the real deal. the rc went thru the same war as non rc's and probably alot more since most of them have shot out bores.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder and to each his own. i own one rc and don't plan on buying another, but not for the purposes mentioned by people who are against them.

hopefully, we can refrain from belittling the rc because it actually deserves alot more respect than we can possibly phathom. i bet if your vet bringback could talk...it probably couldn't hold water compared to the rc's stories and what it went thru.

you know, the human tounge only weighs a few ounces ... but most people cannot hold it. peace out simson, hannah anttom and others.
 

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Well, I don't think anyone is belittling (is that spelled right???) the RC, just expressing opinions on it. The gentleman asked a newbie question on 98k's and people gave their opinions. It is up to him to weigh them, and make a decision ultimately.

Although, I will disagree with your thesis that RC's somehow inherently have more "history" than someones vet bringback. The fact of the matter is no one (well, very few) can tell if there rifle was a battle hardened veteran, a rack queen in some basic training barracks, or a stone virgin at some depot or arsenal. The fact is, I would bet as many RC's were simply captured after the fact at arsenals and depots as were "battlefield pickups".

Facts are facts...an RC is what it is, and what it certainly is not is a factory original. I also collect US rifles to some extent, and I look at "Greek Returns", and the old Blue Sky from Korea imports in the same way I look at RC's. A Greek re-parked mixmaster with a sanded stock M1 just doesn't have the same cachet to me as a never been out of the country US Arsenal re-work with original GI finish. They are just not my bag. But plenty of others dig them, and good on 'em.

As I said, everyone please feel free to collect and enjoy RC's. If they have a place in your collection, that is great. Anyway, that leaves more non-imports, both matching and bolt MM's for the rest of us!
 

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Why does this type of action come up every few months? Some new collector post on this board asking for help and what does he, or she, get? A whole load of crap! Thats what they get, not answers to the questions they need. What a poor way to introduce someone to this hobby which is under attack from the left!

We need to stop looking down on those who find it ok to collect the "junk" of the RC 98's. Or even those who think those who only want the all original vet bring backs that cost thousand. I for one look to the history of a piece, or for that matter pieces. If they could talk! I will admit that a pristine matching number 98 or for that matter any other type of rifle is a thing of beauty but how many of us have a super model for a partner? Huh, did you acept a second stringer?

Maybe someday I will be able to find and purchase the "holy grail" of 98 (and I think we all agree that Mitchell's doesn't sell them), but right now sending my son to college so he can have a better life than me is at the top of my list. Of coarse having heat and lights here in maine means a lot too!

Now as for the questions that need to be answered, lets get together and answer him. We can leave the fighting for those who wish to take away every RC and Vet bring back there is out there!

Just my 2 cents!

rick

Oh by the way, 9 mausers and 6 are k98s and how many are RC's I've forgotten! But as I said they meet my criteria so they are all important to me.;)
 

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The average rc went through more history than 10 original rifles as all rc's are made up of more than 10 "original" rifles.

When some enterprising huckster gun seller says the rifle was from Stalingrad or Kursk or whatever he is not far from the truth as the rifle is made up of so many parts who's to say where each part came from?

This doesn't change the fact these are put together rifles poorly refinished and the collection of parts have no collective history before the soviet assembly.

Besides the negatives (poorly refinished accumulation of parts, poorly assembled and shellacked, and lack of any originality- the standard of all collectables) they are great rifles!

In other words they are junk from a collectors pov.

the rc went thru the same war as non rc's and probably alot more since most of them have shot out bores.
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