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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi,

my recent purchase of a Model 1935 Brazilian Mauser made me curious how the actual prices are for this rifle and how many have been produced. Even the standard Mauser book of Ball gives no production figures - in the WEB one finds figures ranging from about 5,000 to 15,000.

So I used some spare time to thoroughly searching the WEB for 1935 Brazilian Mausers and collected all available data to serial numbers, prices they have been sold for in what year, condition, matching or not, and "extras" like bayonet, original sling, muzzle protector and factory test target.

This not only covered the long rifle but the short version also. Here come the results:



The highest serial no. I did find was 7900, so maybe the whole production run of Brazilian Model 1935 Mausers did not exceed 8,000 examples. And within this production range at least 1,000 were short rifles (serials all in the 1000 range). Maybe even some short rifles more, because the serial range below No. 1000 is only represented by No. 406, a long rifle. Evidence of serial numbers between 500 and 1000 is completely lacking - so it is unclear whether those had been long or short rifles or maybe this whole serial block had not been used at all - who knows?

Nevertheless in my eyes these data give some evidence at least that there have been produced a minimum of 1,000 of the short rifles and maybe no more than 7,000 of the long ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the information. I'll add to my list all future informations I'll find or receive and post an updated version here from time to time.
 

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Hi 7x57,
Jon Speed, the author of "The Mauser Archive" has recently acquired a substanial archive of original financial data on Mauser sales before WW II. He read your post and has been going through his records to locate the payment receipts for the Brazilian order(s). Jon says that Mauser's "payment received" documents are the best source for counting the actual number of rifles exported. Another good souirce is the actual contract itself. Although Jon has a number of original contracts, like for Chile's M1935 carbine purchase, he has not yet found any Brazilian contracts. He sent me several documents to post here. The ones that mention the 1,000 Brazilian M1935 carbines and the one that mentions 3,000 rifles are the most reliable financial documents confirming the shipment of these items. Jon believes that another 3-4,000 rifles might have been sold and is working to locate the relevant financial docs and contracts for these. Jon noted that there are a number of entries in his documents from Brazilian agents requesting quotes for rfiles. It is likely that many of these did not result in actual purchases.

I would also add that if you have a copy of "The Mauser Archive", you will see that sales documents for 7,000 rifles and 1,000 carbines being sold to Brazil. About half were sold in the 1935-36 time frame and half in 1938. Now that Jon has obtained a new archive of financial documents, he is attempting to confirm the old sales records with financial receipts. This is proving very challenging in the Brazilian case.

In addition to the documents posted here, Jon also just sent me this email message:

"John,
Re tracking the financial movements, I see we have the last payments recorded from Brazil in 1938 for the sum of 49,880 marks!. This could indicate the further purchase of at least 800 rifles or carbines in the 1937/38 period?? Only a thought. It is known from serial numbers that 1000 carbines were made a and sold and at least 3000 rifles from the note we have + - 1000-2000 more rifles from 2 other Brazil reps. ?? It's to bad a don't have any contract docs for Brazil like I do for other countires like Chile for their 10,000 carbines but thats how it goes.
Regards,
Jon"


 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Hi John,

great additional info - thanks to Mr. Speed also. Today I sent a contact e-mail to the Mauser company (more precise, to the successor of the original Mauser company, which now is selling the Mauser hunting rifles) and asked for some information on this topic. Let's see what answer will come...

If you or Mr. Speed need assistance for translation of German documents, please let me know. Also if there are problems with reading the old hand-written German documents - we had in those days some writing styles quite different from the normal latin characters. But I belong to a generation which still did learn this sort of letters in school (okay, the ability to write them has mostly gone with the decades, but reading is still not a problem).

The factory test targets show - besides other data - the serial number of the rifle and the date of the test shooting. These testing dates are until now the only information I've got concerning the production time frame:

Rifle No. 2690, tested on Sept. 05, 1935
Rifle No. 4082, tested on March 09, 1937
Rifle No. 4716, tested on April 04, 1937 (uncertain, date difficult to read on the available picture of the target)
Rifle No. 6226, tested on April 09, 1937
Rifles Nos. 7004 & 7005, tested on April 27, 1937
Rifle No. 7145, tested on April 28, 1937
Rifle No. 7198, tested on May 13, 1937
Rifle No. 7702, tested on May 15, 1937

The test targets also sport a so-called "laufende Nummer" or consecutive number which may have been assigned on a daily basis. I found numbers ranging from "5" to "84" - so there might well have been quite a number of guns tested every day.

And finally I have translated the three German document pages shown in post #4 into English:



Thomas
 

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Hi 7x57,
Many thanks for your information and translations. These are very helpful! I am attaching three other documents which Jon sent me recently. Perhaps you could tranalate theswe if you have a few minutes to spare? The first and duplicate seond pages are a short Mauser Co. document confirming the 1000 carbine/3000 Mdl rifle order, the fourth (and last page) is an Oberndorf/ DWM Berlin letter which explains the use of the Oberndorf name and double letter serial numbering on the last Brazil M1908 order circa 1914; and the third is the first page from the Mauser-Chilean contract for the Model 1935 Carabineros order for 10,000 carbines.

Sorry for the mix-up of the page postings.
Best Regards,
John
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hi John,

here come the English translations of the three German documents, they exactly describe what you have already stated:



Hope they are useful. Sorry for double posting of the pictures - but the first time I loaded them up I did not recognize that they were inverted. Did not manage to delete the faulty ones from the thumbnails...

In the short notice of May 16, 1935 I marked the letters "Wi/W." with an asteriks, but forgot the explanation. These simply are the short name signs of the person in charge of the notice/letter (Wi.) and the person who had to type it (W.) - common German office practice.

In the letter of April 1, 1913 the letters "gez." in front of the first signature simply mean "signed" - I omitted this in the translation.

And here some shots of actual test targets to illustrate what I described in my earlier posting:




In the upper left corner there are the number of the rifle, the consecutive number mentioned above and the date, in the upper right corner the shooting distance (50 m) and short signatures of the shooter and the supervisor.

And lastly my thoughts to the abbreviation "R.K.M." in the entry dated March 24, 1936 in the first scan series of German documents. Maybe this stands for "Reichskriegsministerium" ("War Ministry of the Reich"), the official designation of the German War Ministry after May 21, 1935. If true, this would be a hint that those weapons deals were not only a two-party affair between Brazil and Mauser, but the German War Ministry was involved in one form or another, too.

Thomas
 

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Awesome thread. I am left with a couple of questions. I wonder if any one knows if there any carbines in the 1938 Brazilian shipment? Was the 1938 shipment carried out or canceled? Was the total carbine count 1000, mine numbers in the 1500s?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
According to the results of my serial number research shown in post #1, there were 1,000 carbines with their serials in the 1000-2000 range. So the No. 1500 of your gun perfectly fits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You can add this one, 1935 rifle # 5907. Unissued with matching bayonet, sling muzzle cap and test target in cardboard cylinder. Got it in the mid 80's. Non import marked.
Thank you for the information - just added to my list. One more of the ones with really all "extras"!
 

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1935 carbine, CIA import marked, matching, missing rod, S# 1511, well worn, shiny bore, accurate. Interesting thing, shoots low with 175 grain at traditional speeds, right on with 140 grain at high end speeds.







 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks again to all contributions. Especially those of you who are the lucky owners of original test targets (even if the appropriate gun is lacking) - the three dates in the left upper corner (gun no., "laufende Nr.", i.e. consecutive number and of course the date of the test would be highly appreciated. Until now I have only a few examples and these are the only data to estimate the production time frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
... I wish mine had the cleaning rod. What length is correct?

Probably the 25 cm variant depicted in this picture (http://www.k98k.info/uploader/pc180002.jpg) would be correct. Was in use between 1934 and 1939 on carbine variants of Mauser 98 types. I have a long M1935 rifle, this has a 39 cm long cleaning rod. The tip of the first two cleaning rods in the picture is the same like that of my rifle's. And the cleaning rods of Brazilian Models 1935 were not blued - at least until now I did not see a single picture of a blued cleaning rod on a 1935 Brazil.

Here (http://www.k98k.info/index.php?p=pr...e=putzstoecke-bei-den-deutschen-98er-modellen) you see illustrated how to measure the correct cleaning rod length. The text is in German, but I think the pictures are self-explaining.

Simply look after the exact position of the cleaning rod fixing thread in your gun's stock (the red marked parts on the picture) http://www.k98k.info/uploads/media/dsc_0001.jpg. If the 25-cm-rod is correct for your rifle, then this thread is covered by the lower barrel band and can be seen on the underside of the stock after removal of the barrel band - position see middle one of the three stocks depicted.

If you find the fixing thread in a more backward position (upper one of the three rifles), then you need a 39 cm rod.

The 32 cm rod (lower one of the three guns) was introduced in 1939, so did not yet exist when your gun was produced. Same applies to the 15 cm wartime variant.
 
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