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sks, tokarev, makarov, combloc
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently I was given the opportunity to examine photograph and try out a unique sub machine gun designed and built entirely in New Mexico. It is a bullpup design. It uses modified sten or lancaster magazines. The biggest feature is the chamber and magazine section can rotate 360 degrees while firing. I understand the idea was if one was rappeling and started to spin because of firing it could be stopped and returned by merely rotating the magazine chamber section. All examples were experimental and only 20 were registered before the laws changed.
This example has a trigger that will fire single, 3 shot burst or full auto dpending on how far you pull it. easy to work, actually. In fact the bull pup design reduces recoil considerably. The 'stock' can be fully extended for shoulder or anywhere in between including one hand operation with the gun in the crook of the arm.
The air force tried a couple out but never adopted it. At least one was made to fire 9MM (as this one) or .45 with a simple replacment of the bolt, barrel and magazine holder.
A really neat and easy and accurate gun to shoot. ( can adjust to 3 speeds)
Pictured here for what we lost out on when new machine guns were banned.
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My read on on the rotating mag well is that one of the design team members thought the Sten's side-loading magazine was cool, the others thought it was dumb, so they compromised on "all of the above."
 

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Recall that the Czechoslovak CZ247 9-mm and CZ347 7.62-mm SMGs could be configured to operate like a Sten with a left-side magazine allowing a lower prone firing position for the user, or a Thompson/MP-40 type vertical feed from the bottom of the receiver. Sales were low. Some went to Bolivia. Others were provided to the secessionist Biafrans during the Nigerian Civil War.


As for this gun, I'd say the odd layout stems from the Bushmaster "arm gun" or bull-pup 5.56-mm pistol?

 

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Sid McQueen did those and there are quite a few variations using different magazines. He even did one or two in 45 if I recall correctly. Sid had a gunshop in Corrales New Mexico that we used to hang out in when he allowed it. Sir Sids Sidearm Sales. He was a cantakerous old fart and very smart. Sometimes he would put up with us teenagers and other times he'd tell us to get lost. He did let us shoot a couple of the guns when we ran into him out in the desert once. Neat pieces. In the years since then I've had the opportunity to shoot more of them and helped a friend buy a collection of 4 of the guns.

The swiveling mag allowed you to use either hand for both shooting and mag changes. It did complicate the design a bit but once you see how it all works its simpler than you might think. Single feed double stack mags made the bolt design simpler.....otherwise the Beretta mags would have been a great choice. Instead he used the sten and MP40 mags.

Frank
 

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sks, tokarev, makarov, combloc
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sid McQueen did those and there are quite a few variations using different magazines. He even did one or two in 45 if I recall correctly. Sid had a gunshop in Corrales New Mexico that we used to hang out in when he allowed it. Sir Sids Sidearm Sales. He was a cantakerous old fart and very smart. Sometimes he would put up with us teenagers and other times he'd tell us to get lost. He did let us shoot a couple of the guns when we ran into him out in the desert once. Neat pieces. In the years since then I've had the opportunity to shoot more of them and helped a friend buy a collection of 4 of the guns.

The swiveling mag allowed you to use either hand for both shooting and mag changes. It did complicate the design a bit but once you see how it all works its simpler than you might think. Single feed double stack mags made the bolt design simpler.....otherwise the Beretta mags would have been a great choice. Instead he used the sten and MP40 mags.

Frank
There were only 20 registered. Friend with 4 has cornered the market. Because of the bull pup design I am told it is easy to fire accuratly one handed. Sid opened a shop in the south valley of alb. Some thugs came in and tried to rob him. He kept a legally registered M2 carbine with 30 round magazine and emptied it, so the story goes. Not much left intact. Had to close the shop and changed his name.
 

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There are a lot of stories out there and some are even true. Not sure about that one. I know Corrales is in the north valley of the Albuquerque metro area but it is possible he opened another shop down in the hood. There are still some oldsters out there who knew him. Doc Dater who was at Gemtech til smith and wesson ruined them is one. Marty Pearl who was a class II in Grants NM was one of the bunch too. They're alive and well and probably know more about reality than us. I think I was 16 the first time I was in Sids shop in Corrales and that was way back.

I see people posting numbers of this and that in the registry all the time and the reality is that we'll never know. My thought was that there were about 23-26 guns done by Sid and I know of at least two others registered by another CII. I don't know if they were done with Sids approval or not, the current owner doesn't know or won't admit. The NFA world is a bit odd and even the ATF doesn't know what there really is in the registry. A lot of things are registered wrong or have no model and so on so its not possible to do a search in the computer with any expectation of finding everything.

Frank
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
There are a lot of stories out there and some are even true. Not sure about that one. I know Corrales is in the north valley of the Albuquerque metro area but it is possible he opened another shop down in the hood. There are still some oldsters out there who knew him. Doc Dater who was at Gemtech til smith and wesson ruined them is one. Marty Pearl who was a class II in Grants NM was one of the bunch too. They're alive and well and probably know more about reality than us. I think I was 16 the first time I was in Sids shop in Corrales and that was way back.

I see people posting numbers of this and that in the registry all the time and the reality is that we'll never know. My thought was that there were about 23-26 guns done by Sid and I know of at least two others registered by another CII. I don't know if they were done with Sids approval or not, the current owner doesn't know or won't admit. The NFA world is a bit odd and even the ATF doesn't know what there really is in the registry. A lot of things are registered wrong or have no model and so on so its not possible to do a search in the computer with any expectation of finding everything.

Frank
Frank
Are you in New mexico? We should meet, if we ever get past this darn virus.Turns out I am , maybe not one of the oldsters you knew, but old. I know marty well ( he moved out of state) and sid ( by his old and new name) and don P. Haven't talked to any for over a year because of the virus.I have heard the story from all. I also heard it from good BATF agents in the old days when we had working relations with them ( ALL retired now, alas).Small arms review, years ago, reported 20 registered. Regardless, the number is small. Sid and Don worked it up together and the one I have seen was paid to a local gunsmith, to do all the bluing.
There were a lot of spare parts left but I never heard of any being made on the side.
 
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