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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This board is the most likely to have someone up to snuff on Siamese Mausers in 45/70 caliber. Help me here on memory lane. These converted Japanese made
rifles were done by Navy Arms ? I am certain my memory is right on this as I recall back in the ancient ShotGun News days, it was Navy Arms selling these converted rifles.

If now Navy Arms, who then converted and sold these rifles ?

Thanks in advance
 

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Anyone have any history on a possible "who done it"? This is a Siamese Mauser chambered in 45-70, military configuration, stock original to receiver.

All parts look original with the exception of the magazine feeder. Need to get a pic of that posted.

Condition of barrel is excellent. Overall condition of rifle is excellent and I am 100% confident it would handle a low powered 230-250gr 45-70 round. I wouldn't go heavier than that. No desire to break rifle. I called Navy Arms and they stated they did not convert Siamese mausers to 45-70.

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The cavity in the buttstock was not for a cleaning kit but for the combination muzzle cover / front sight protector.
The paperwork was used to tell which unit the rifle was sent to, when it was re-furbished,etc.
I am sure Frank will know who did the 45/70 conversions, I am not up on those.
 

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The conversions I have seen were fitted with new barrels and new stocks. I am not sure who to speak to.

MilPreb, Yes Navy Amrs sold many of these conversions and you can find those with a google search. Yes, I remember back when these were done and I had no idea what a Siamese Mauser was. That is a mutual memory refresh. You can still see there are a lot of replacement stocks on the surplus market. No doubt from the whole sale conversion of these rifles. It seemed like a cool idea at the time. The action was then and is now considered very strong. Nothing wrong with mild loads, but; certainly not a necessity.

The same conversion has been done to Lee Enfields. That is new barrel, stock and sights. I would tend to be a littlel bit more conservative on loading those.

VA-Vet, your gun was done by some one else. That has the original barrel rebored to 458. That is new to me. I imagine, by today's standards more acceptable.
 

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Your rifle is a particularly nice example. It is serial number 39079 from the second contract in 1903. It was overhauled at some point and re-chambered to fire the Type 66 8x52R cartridge. The overhaul number /work order number is stamped on the barrel step.

Any experienced gunsmith could have done the re-barreling with a .45-70 barrel to make it easier to use a more common ammunition. I am not sure Navy Arms did conversions.

Frank
 

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I agree with Fourbore. The ones I recall all had new sporter stocks ans a new barrel around 24 inches. Never had one but recall the ads. Actually thought about buying one just never happened.
 

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There was a company in Penn. by the name of Federal Arms that made some conversions . they latter became Shaw Barrel Company or some thing like that . When did you call Navy Arms and had asked them if they did the conversion in their Union City , NJ plant ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There was a company in Penn. by the name of Federal Arms that made some conversions . When did you call Navy Arms and had asked them if they did the conversion in their Union City , NJ plant ?
Va Vet called Gibbs Rifle Company/ aka Ole Western Scrounger , aka Navy Arms. He talked to some lady who claimed Navy Arms never did 45/70 conversions...obviously she was not on the planet when this stuff happened. Had Val Forgett Jr been in the office, I think Va Vet would have gotten a straight answer !!

This rifle is not a sporter and I too recall Navy Arms offering sporters in 45/70 using Siam actions. I don't remember anyone rebarreling and keeping military wood nor keeping the rifle looking military correct in all outward features . That is the part that has me stumped....for this rifle looks original but its a 45/70
 

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Ol Relic and I have compared barrels (he has a Siamese Mauser chambered in 8x52). Our barrels are very similar in overall measurements to state with a fair degree of accuracy the barrel is original.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ol Relic and I have compared barrels (he has a Siamese Mauser chambered in 8x52). Our barrels are very similar in overall measurements to state with a fair degree of accuracy the barrel is original.
I don't think its possible to take a 8mm barrel and bring it to 458 caliber, none of my Mausers could do that kind of acrobatics. Your rifle is in 45/70, that alone negates any "originality" . The rifle is , without question , a converted
Siamese Mauser, that said, its an odd one as its in military configuration and not the common Siamese Mauser 45/70 sporter.
 

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That maybe, in part, my fault. I assumed that was the original barrel. Perhaps not then. The fr and rear sights fit, the barrel had siamese markings? It should be easy enough to compare OD muzzle measurements. What exactly are the numbers va-vet and ol relic compared? It is a shame we have these secret off forum discussions.

It would also be interesting if the OP could fire a couple loads at 100 yards and observe POI. Perhaps 405 lead and some 300-350 jacketed load.
 

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Firing this rifle....I'm looking for 10-20 pieces of 45-70 brass and projectiles under 300gr. If anyone is willing to donate some for this project, they would certainly be appreciated.
 

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I'm hoping these few pics will help clarify the barrel issue. I do have some Siamese markings on either the barrel or sleeve. The question is, where goes the barrel end and the receiver start.

Does the barrel end at the joint where the screwdriver is pointing, or the magnifying glass (rear of rear sight).

On the pics with the pencil pointing to a spot on the barrel/barrel sleeve, is a very faint Siamese marking (could be Japanese too, very hard to get a real good look at it).

Other then the two markings (shown below) on the barrel shank/sleeve, this barrel has no other markings. None at all. In markings, its again very similar to Ol Relics barrel.

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Navy arms did mod / import the little carbine based on the same gun but this one is someone else's work. I think it's a rebore of the original barrel. Nicely done by ? Reason I believe this is that no one producing a replacement barrel in an non original caliber would mark the new barrel with Siamese markings and turn it for the original sights as well. Just my wag.

Don
 

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Navy arms did mod / import the little carbine based on the same gun but this one is someone else's work. I think it's a rebore of the original barrel. Nicely done by ? Reason I believe this is that no one producing a replacement barrel in an non original caliber would mark the new barrel with Siamese markings and turn it for the original sights as well. Just my wag.

Don
could be sleeved ,
as in the original barrel cut and drilled out , and new barrel inserted in the sleeve,
 
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