Gunboards Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Silver Bullet Member
Joined
·
2,652 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
started a thread about pine tar, now if you have done a stock and have some pics show them and tell how you did them. I have a stock that bubba had to purty up on a finn and I want to at least make it look better by maybe using some pine tar on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,634 Posts
Do a search on pine tar stocks, 250 post's show up. If the wood is sealed it may be hard to do a good finish.
+1, pine tar must soak into the pores of the wood. If you are putting it over an existing finish that has the wood sealed, then the pine tar isn't going to do much.
 

·
Diamond Bullet Member
Joined
·
9,096 Posts
If the stock has been damaged by a modern finish, you can remove the new finish with a citrus paint remover in most cases.

Then scrub the stock with hot water and detergent (action removed, of course) which will clean it and raise the grain, Finn fashion, before you rub in the pine tar to a dry and slightly rough stock.

I have more or less saved two stocks that way -not perfect, but better than the glossy look before the treatment with Tom's Pine Tar. The stock will smell like a smoky pine fire for a week, but that isn't so bad.
 

·
Platinum Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,050 Posts
I have been disappointed with the results of citrus paint remover on sealed wood. I would try something a bit stronger & let dry it thoroughly before attempting to use PT.
Citrus paint remover is easier & safer to use than most. And I like it, but some times you need stronger stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,929 Posts
You don't need to buy Tom's Pine Tar. You can just buy some pine tar at a place like Tractor Supply (in the horse care section). Then mix it 50/50 with boiled linseed oil. I then add a couple of ounces of turpentine in a 16 ounce mix. also I add color by using a 50/50 mix of Fiebings British Tan and USMC Black. The Finns added oil dye in their linseed oil so it is "sort of" authentic. You have to really heat it for it to penetrate. I use a heat gun set at 750 degrees until it bubbles into the wood. Looks and feels like a Finn or like a fine shotgun stock depending on how you rub it in afterwards. More rubbing equals slicker so don't rub a Finn much. You don't want to duplicate a commercial finish - except on a commercial firearm.

Here is a Boito shotgun I did as a test mule. Stock was the ugliest and scabbiest bright yellow you have ever seen.



Here is a Carcano that had been sanded and was also yellow with no finish at all




And. finally a 1939 Tula Finn capture that I bought as a project because the finish had been stripped. Thankfully not sanded

 

Attachments

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
932 Posts
Those stocks look great!

You don't need to buy Tom's Pine Tar. You can just buy some pine tar at a place like Tractor Supply (in the horse care section). Then mix it 50/50 with boiled linseed oil. I then add a couple of ounces of turpentine in a 16 ounce mix. also I add color by using a 50/50 mix of Fiebings British Tan and USMC Black. The Finns added oil dye in their linseed oil so it is "sort of" authentic. You have to really heat it for it to penetrate. I use a heat gun set at 750 degrees until it bubbles into the wood. Looks and feels like a Finn or like a fine shotgun stock depending on how you rub it in afterwards. More rubbing equals slicker so don't rub a Finn much. You don't want to duplicate a commercial finish - except on a commercial firearm.

Here is a Boito shotgun I did as a test mule. Stock was the ugliest and scabbiest bright yellow you have ever seen.

View attachment 781741 View attachment 781742 View attachment 781743

Here is a Carcano that had been sanded and was also yellow with no finish at all

View attachment 781745 View attachment 781741


And. finally a 1939 Tula Finn capture that I bought as a project because the finish had been stripped. Thankfully not sanded

View attachment 781755 View attachment 781749
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,929 Posts
First one done was on the Boito for a reason, lol. I bought it to help out a friend. I figured I had better start on something that I could just sand if I screwed it up. since then I have also done a Remington 11 but haven't photographed it yet. It came out really nice too. The Mosin was naked raw white wood when I got it from a member here. Now I have to check the barrel shank to remember which one I did. It is hanging under its twin on my wall right now, but the "twin" was done in Finland in the '40s. I really can't tell the difference. I also re-did an M28 that had been finished with Tom's Pine Tar. I think it looks much more original now. It had a yellow stock, and now it is toned down a lot. I haven't decided whether to continue on it or not. So far I have not added any dye to the mix on it.

Here it is before (seller's photo):



And after:



I have one more step to go, and will decide how to proceed after thinking on it some.
 

·
Platinum Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,050 Posts
I will stick to pine tar because of one thing, each piece of birch is like a canvas. you never know what you will get. It dares you to try, the old Finn stocks finished out like masters.
No amount of leather dyes will do it for you, dyes are unfeeling it covers the imperfections of wood. You may as well air brush the whole thing. And that is what it looks like to me.
I have a theory about the early stocks and it is still unproven but I am still working on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,929 Posts
The Finns used dyes. Every Tom's Pine tar Finn I have ever seen I have recognized as Tom's Pine Tar. People put it on M39s and our Finnish members emphatically tell us they didn't use pine tar at all. And they put black dye in their linseed oil. Fiebings is sold as leather dye. It is just an oil based dye that mixes well with linseed, turpentine, and pine tar.
 

·
Platinum Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,050 Posts
The Finns used dyes. Every Tom's Pine tar Finn I have ever seen I have recognized as Tom's Pine Tar. People put it on M39s and our Finnish members emphatically tell us they didn't use pine tar at all. And they put black dye in their linseed oil. Fiebings is sold as leather dye. It is just an oil based dye that mixes well with linseed, turpentine, and pine tar.
I have listened to that tale, they cannot show proof, but neither can I . But they do admit there is a tar pigment in the SA Army oil, so what else is there.
I have tried leather dyes, it is nothing new. I think the members here have tried everything that could possible work, but they all returned to PT.
So what is Toms Pine tar? Just a mix of bees wax & what else? Why not pine tar, linseed oil, turpentine & lacquer like the man said.
You want black you should see a cedar fence sprayed with PT & linseed oil, now that is black plus it gives you a fifty year fence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,929 Posts
Black is not black on a stock unless you use too much. I tend to trust the research of people who read Finnish and live there. But...that's just me.

I don't think this looks black.And it is no longer white stripped wood either. And it isn't opaque. If yours came out opaque, you used too much dye (stain). Do you really believe all those colors and wood grains were achieved in wartime by a bunch of craftsmen trying to make them look pretty? With the Russians 100 miles away? I doubt it. Just like in the Civil War, Revolutionary War, WWI, and WWI the stocks were stained. How the birch took the stain and whet the grain was under it determines its beauty and color, I think. I know for SURE they didn't have Tom's Pine Tar at AV-3.

Tar pigment = black. Pine tar is an oil. Black dye is an oil based dye. I am not quite sure how this relates to fence posts, except for maybe the fence posts in my photos.

 

·
Silver Bullet Member
Joined
·
6,552 Posts
Black is not black on a stock unless you use too much. I tend to trust the research of people who read Finnish and live there. But...that's just me.

I don't think this looks black.And it is no longer white stripped wood either. And it isn't opaque. If yours came out opaque, you used too much dye (stain). Do you really believe all those colors and wood grains were achieved in wartime by a bunch of craftsmen trying to make them look pretty? With the Russians 100 miles away? I doubt it. Just like in the Civil War, Revolutionary War, WWI, and WWI the stocks were stained. How the birch took the stain and whet the grain was under it determines its beauty and color, I think. I know for SURE they didn't have Tom's Pine Tar at AV-3.

Tar pigment = black. Pine tar is an oil. Black dye is an oil based dye. I am not quite sure how this relates to fence posts, except for maybe the fence posts in my photos.

View attachment 781903 View attachment 781911 View attachment 781910 View attachment 781909 View attachment 781908 View attachment 781907 View attachment 781906 View attachment 781905 View attachment 781904 View attachment 781912
This stock looks REALLY good. It really looks like an original Finnish finish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,929 Posts
Lol, nah, it's a black fencepost. Everybody knows this can only be done by buying Toim's Pine Tar and then hoping for the best on the color.

By the way, I didn't just start out doing this. I have restored 150 to 250 year old antiques on and off for the past 30 years. Very few have turned into black fenceposts, though some of the Revolutionary War and ACW stuff I guess did. But it was supposed to. That's what 200 years of sitting in soot and dirt of an attic will do. It will oxidize some finishes almost black. There is no right or wrong way to restore a Bubbaed rifle. As long as the finished product looks as close to its correct state before Bubba got hold of it, it's OK with me. I am just not paying somebody to mix my pine tar and BLO when I can do it myself. Oh, and my rifles don't smell like Pine Sol in the house within 15 minutes by the way. a friend who uses Tom's told me he has to leave a stock in the garage for a couple of days at least. OK. I don't. Turpentine is my thought on that smell more than the pine tar. If it is sealed into the wood, it should not smell much at all when finished.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
9,245 Posts
Doby, I think that's about as close as I've seen anyone come to getting the look of many Finnish stocks. You mentioned above that you had "one more step to go and had to do some thinking on it"-what did you mean by that?
 

·
Platinum Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,050 Posts
You had one man that said Finns did not use pine tar, I read his statement. Now you have turned it into something that is not true.
The SA army oil was a dark stain, they did not imply it was a dye not at all. Show the proof of ingredients or go back to playing with your shoe polish.
If you are happy with polishing your shoe polish then I am happy as a bunny in a carrot patch for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,929 Posts
You had one man that said Finns did not use pine tar, I read his statement. Now you have turned it into something that is not true.
The SA army oil was a dark stain, they did not imply it was a dye not at all. Show the proof of ingredients or go back to playing with your shoe polish.
If you are happy with polishing your shoe polish then I am happy as a bunny in a carrot patch for you.
Stain and oil dye are the same thing. Just depends on what you put it on. Have you read the uses for pine tar? I like it. I use it. I've even made soap from it. I just don't buy it from Tom's. Wow you really seem a little bitter that my rifles didn't come out like fence posts. I am surprised. I don't use shoe polish. I rescued some bubbas. One from Tom's Pine Tar that had already been applied poorly. The other came from a member here who didn't feel he could do the rifle justice. I paid about as much for it as if it were original to help him out. And yes, I am happy with them. I have to look up serial numbers to tell which is which.

As for the M28 with a Ski Trooper stock, Ol Relic - I used VERY little stain (or die) in my mix. Bugelson said that wartime finishes were darker than later ones. I believe him based on the ones in my collection. It isn't hundreds like many of you have but I am up to about 40 now. I am trying to decide how much and in what proportion I will use the stains. I have a post-war test refurb 91-30 stock that I experiment on.

I would probably do it this weekend, but I am already committed to fixing a .44-77 Remington Rolling Block for a fellow. He doesn't think my guns are fenceposts covered in shoe polish either, or he wouldn't trust me with his $3500 rifle.

Lol, thanks for the compliments and the criticisms. Both are fun to respond to.

As for Bugelson, I think I will let him defend his own comments. I take nothing as gospel, but knowing how pine tar is made, I tend to believe him utterly on this. I don't read Finnish, and I have not talked to the people who were there. Perhaps he has done both.
 

·
Platinum Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,050 Posts
Here you go again I said what is Toms pine tar as I have no idea what it is, I use pine tar to spray fencing it gives it almost a lifetime use. along with wood decks.
Leather dye is alcohol based not something I would use on wood and it will not do justice to birch wood at all. it totally covers up the imperfections of birch, something I noticed along time ago. You keep repeating everything the man said but you deny he has influenced you. Well I don't care one way or the other but don't rag on me for disagreeing with you this is a free country the last time I looked.
Go back a few pages & open your eyes. Your leather dye just don't cut it when it comes to real beauty in stocks, it has the look of a air brush paint job covering up the natural beauty of the wood.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top