mauserdoc
Posted - 12/31/2006 : 4:00:19 PM
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Will a hellquist sight go in the same reciever holes as a sodern?
which sights had front hoods associated with them. Which sights had diopters (front sight inserts) associated with them?
were there rear peeps that didn't have a front globe associated with them?
Will any commercially available inserts fit into hoods from sweden (lyman etc)?
can any swedish friends let me know which sights tended to be better for longer or shorter ranges--that is if there was a consensus that some sights were better than others for long or short range use?
Mauserdoc
swede
Posted - 12/31/2006 : 5:10:53 PM
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The Soderin & Helqvist have the same hole pattern & do not match any others , although you may be able to force the base with an incorrect hole pattern . In that case , your sight may not be level with receiver or cocked off center line of the receiver .
The Elit front sight ( insert w/wide tab at 6:00 o'clock ) was used with the Elit & GF rear diopter sights & many others as well .
The Faldat diopter had its own front sight with an insert .
The Hauges diopter had a hood that clamped over the barrel & used its own replacement post or peep blades ( fits in the original dovetail ) .
The Pramm had a hood that clamped around the barrel , while using the original post blade . It also had a similar hood with screw in inserts at both ends similar to the Elit front sight hood .
There are several other hooded front sight with inserts & without any name on them that were used by the Swedes .
There are several unnamed hood type covers that clamped onto the front sight base & using the original post blade . The m/Jarno is the only one of this type that I have seen with a name , although not marked . It comes in 3 aperture diameters .
There are several differant size inserts for Swede front sights . The Elit is unique with the wide tab at the bottom . There are a number of differant diameter inserts with tabs in the 9:00 o'clock & 3:00 o'clock position . Brownells sells only one type like this that I have found to be compatable with just one type front sight . They are made by " Shaver " for the Anschultz sights . None of the other inserts sold by Brownells fit any of the other unnamed front sights. There are many differant Swede front sights & I am sure that I have not seen them all. So, what you have may or may not fit some of the other inserts at Brownells.
If you are looking for an answer as to what is correct on Swede target rifles , everything is correct . The Swede shooters mixed & matched any front or rear sight to suite themselves . There were some regulations unknown to me , but not about having to use an Elit front & rear sight together , or a set of Pramm or Hauges sights together .
The only target rifles that would have defined front & rear sights would CG factory target rifles like the fm23 , fm23/36 , m/6 & m/7 .
mauserdoc
Posted - 12/31/2006 : 11:54:25 PM
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swede:
Thanks so much -- that was an excellent answer to all the questions I have had. Much appreciated -- Happy New Year!! Jeff
svett80
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 1:59:34 PM
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This is excellent info. Thanks! Can anyone tell me if any of the Swedish or American Di-opters or peep sights used over the years have a straight-line mounting hole pattern rather than the staggered hole arrangement like the Pramm?
swede
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 3:08:47 PM
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The Faldt diopter uses straight line centers of 16 m/m ( left to right ) . No other Swede sights that I am aware of are straight across . The Busk top mount diopter has a rectangular hole pattern ( 4 holes ) of approximately 18 m/m across by 14 m/m front to back . There is also a Busk side mount diopter , as well as the side mount Lyman , Hauges & Hooka .
arilar
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 3:44:02 PM
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Mauserdoc,
Got this info from an active FSR shooter: On a Sauer, FSR89 and CG80 is Busk mostly used. For a Sauer sometimes diopter from Anschutz or Hämmerli. On a CG63 Elit, Hauge and Söderin is popular. But....when competing in field-shooting (often up to 600 meters) Söderin-diopter is also popular on the Sauer.
Hope this info is of any interest. I dont do FSR shooting myself (yet).
Regards,
ARILAR
mauserdoc
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 11:24:22 PM
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Very interesting. Guess the busk stands out in that it requires 4 holes.
God has been good to me over the past few months and I been making progress toward getting my collection of diopted guns both as guns with sights mounted and D and T guns that I have been able to mount sights on.
Sights I have mounted included sodern, (almost) a helquist, and an elite.
Those mounted include: hooka, pramm, faldt, and andersen
I still have the side mounted jobs--hagues, lyman to go along with a busk and Gf diopter.
I have learned a lot since I started this aspect of collecting-- for example, I had negative feelings on the faldt, but Swede told me these would likely be dispelled on shooting the gun--TAck DRIVER! and very stable and reproducible settings.
I am now looking for the subtle difference in what these sights are capable of. However, given the number of fronts available, it is pretty hard to compare these sights--unless one had all that were the same. Obviously not possible. Studying the characteristics of these will be a several year project for me as I will be wanting to compare side to side at ranges out to several hundred yards. Obviouly a daunting undertaking. What works at 100 yards may not work at 600 and before that happens, I will need glasses and a 600yard range!!.
My general opinion at this time is that the busk is the most high tech game in town; for those of you have haven't tried one, it really rocks--very smooth--very reproducible--super high quality.
Esthetically, the pramm is my favorite today.
I hear the hagues will give the rest a run for their money. Wouldn't know at this time as I have never used one.
swede
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 04:44:47 AM
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You will also find the CG80 with a rail mounted across the receiver , front to back . I have a Busk diopter that slides on the dovetail of this rail & locks into position with a knurled screw. This , along with the 4 hole Busk diopter are the more modern versions . There is an older & smaller Busk sight that mounts with 4 holes , as well as the older side mount Busk .
Posted - 12/31/2006 : 4:00:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will a hellquist sight go in the same reciever holes as a sodern?
which sights had front hoods associated with them. Which sights had diopters (front sight inserts) associated with them?
were there rear peeps that didn't have a front globe associated with them?
Will any commercially available inserts fit into hoods from sweden (lyman etc)?
can any swedish friends let me know which sights tended to be better for longer or shorter ranges--that is if there was a consensus that some sights were better than others for long or short range use?
Mauserdoc
swede
Posted - 12/31/2006 : 5:10:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Soderin & Helqvist have the same hole pattern & do not match any others , although you may be able to force the base with an incorrect hole pattern . In that case , your sight may not be level with receiver or cocked off center line of the receiver .
The Elit front sight ( insert w/wide tab at 6:00 o'clock ) was used with the Elit & GF rear diopter sights & many others as well .
The Faldat diopter had its own front sight with an insert .
The Hauges diopter had a hood that clamped over the barrel & used its own replacement post or peep blades ( fits in the original dovetail ) .
The Pramm had a hood that clamped around the barrel , while using the original post blade . It also had a similar hood with screw in inserts at both ends similar to the Elit front sight hood .
There are several other hooded front sight with inserts & without any name on them that were used by the Swedes .
There are several unnamed hood type covers that clamped onto the front sight base & using the original post blade . The m/Jarno is the only one of this type that I have seen with a name , although not marked . It comes in 3 aperture diameters .
There are several differant size inserts for Swede front sights . The Elit is unique with the wide tab at the bottom . There are a number of differant diameter inserts with tabs in the 9:00 o'clock & 3:00 o'clock position . Brownells sells only one type like this that I have found to be compatable with just one type front sight . They are made by " Shaver " for the Anschultz sights . None of the other inserts sold by Brownells fit any of the other unnamed front sights. There are many differant Swede front sights & I am sure that I have not seen them all. So, what you have may or may not fit some of the other inserts at Brownells.
If you are looking for an answer as to what is correct on Swede target rifles , everything is correct . The Swede shooters mixed & matched any front or rear sight to suite themselves . There were some regulations unknown to me , but not about having to use an Elit front & rear sight together , or a set of Pramm or Hauges sights together .
The only target rifles that would have defined front & rear sights would CG factory target rifles like the fm23 , fm23/36 , m/6 & m/7 .
mauserdoc
Posted - 12/31/2006 : 11:54:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
swede:
Thanks so much -- that was an excellent answer to all the questions I have had. Much appreciated -- Happy New Year!! Jeff
svett80
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 1:59:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is excellent info. Thanks! Can anyone tell me if any of the Swedish or American Di-opters or peep sights used over the years have a straight-line mounting hole pattern rather than the staggered hole arrangement like the Pramm?
swede
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 3:08:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Faldt diopter uses straight line centers of 16 m/m ( left to right ) . No other Swede sights that I am aware of are straight across . The Busk top mount diopter has a rectangular hole pattern ( 4 holes ) of approximately 18 m/m across by 14 m/m front to back . There is also a Busk side mount diopter , as well as the side mount Lyman , Hauges & Hooka .
arilar
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 3:44:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mauserdoc,
Got this info from an active FSR shooter: On a Sauer, FSR89 and CG80 is Busk mostly used. For a Sauer sometimes diopter from Anschutz or Hämmerli. On a CG63 Elit, Hauge and Söderin is popular. But....when competing in field-shooting (often up to 600 meters) Söderin-diopter is also popular on the Sauer.
Hope this info is of any interest. I dont do FSR shooting myself (yet).
Regards,
ARILAR
mauserdoc
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 11:24:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting. Guess the busk stands out in that it requires 4 holes.
God has been good to me over the past few months and I been making progress toward getting my collection of diopted guns both as guns with sights mounted and D and T guns that I have been able to mount sights on.
Sights I have mounted included sodern, (almost) a helquist, and an elite.
Those mounted include: hooka, pramm, faldt, and andersen
I still have the side mounted jobs--hagues, lyman to go along with a busk and Gf diopter.
I have learned a lot since I started this aspect of collecting-- for example, I had negative feelings on the faldt, but Swede told me these would likely be dispelled on shooting the gun--TAck DRIVER! and very stable and reproducible settings.
I am now looking for the subtle difference in what these sights are capable of. However, given the number of fronts available, it is pretty hard to compare these sights--unless one had all that were the same. Obviously not possible. Studying the characteristics of these will be a several year project for me as I will be wanting to compare side to side at ranges out to several hundred yards. Obviouly a daunting undertaking. What works at 100 yards may not work at 600 and before that happens, I will need glasses and a 600yard range!!.
My general opinion at this time is that the busk is the most high tech game in town; for those of you have haven't tried one, it really rocks--very smooth--very reproducible--super high quality.
Esthetically, the pramm is my favorite today.
I hear the hagues will give the rest a run for their money. Wouldn't know at this time as I have never used one.
swede
Posted - 01/02/2007 : 04:44:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will also find the CG80 with a rail mounted across the receiver , front to back . I have a Busk diopter that slides on the dovetail of this rail & locks into position with a knurled screw. This , along with the 4 hole Busk diopter are the more modern versions . There is an older & smaller Busk sight that mounts with 4 holes , as well as the older side mount Busk .
