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This is collectors forum and the rank and file is different from a typical gun forum.
First thing the posters and moderators are intelligence wise are a step above what is found elsewhere on other forums and this leads to a larger range of opinions.
Being collectors means that some here tend to be into weapons (I say weapons and guns) that are not at the moment at max attention of the antigunners. Some of these people may also have type 03 Collector of Curios and Relics license. So perhaps some feel a slight empowerment and identification with the government. So the mindset can be different for some here and also the nation is about half democrat and so this will include some collectors.

There are also a lot of other countries on these forums whose citizenry comes from a different system. Societies where the power the Govern is not derived from the people and certain rights such as Defense from Tyranny are not inherent rights but rather privilege's "Granted by Your Leave" from the ruling establishment. Even in the United States, we are losing the mindset required to maintain such a Government system that the power to Govern is derived from the consent of the Governed. Freedom is not security but rather the complete opposite of it.

People act in accordance with the framework their mindset was constructed upon. That is why my in-laws, who grew up in Socialism are perfectly happy to eat a boiled potato, no butter, no salt, for dinner even when given the choice of something better. At times, They even go so far as virtue signal about how little they require to be happy and are not greedy like their daughter.
 

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There are also a lot of other countries on these forums whose citizenry comes from a different system. Societies where the power the Govern is not derived from the people and certain rights such as Defense from Tyranny are not inherent rights but rather privilege's "Granted by Your Leave" from the ruling establishment. Even in the United States, we are losing the mindset required to maintain such a Government system that the power to Govern is derived from the consent of the Governed. Freedom is not security but rather the complete opposite of it.

People act in accordance with the framework their mindset was constructed upon. That is why my in-laws, who grew up in Socialism are perfectly happy to eat a boiled potato, no butter, no salt, for dinner even when given the choice of something better. At times, They even go so far as virtue signal about how little they require to be happy and are not greedy like their daughter.
The opinions I am often referring to come from native born americans.
 

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The opinions I am often referring to come from native born americans.
I realized that and was not disagreeing with you. We are losing the mindset required to have a system of Government in which the power to Govern is derived from the people.

Even in the United States, we are losing the mindset required to maintain such a Government system that the power to Govern is derived from the consent of the Governed.
 

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#77 - the response rather proves the point. The comment was interpreted as an attack on the 'right wing' section of the forum. Perhaps it was intended to refer to the extremes of US politics.
With Roe v Wade and other attitudes to social issues, the various States will soon be doing more than snapping at each other.
"A house divided against itself, cannot stand".
 

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Staffy,

Once again.. You're from another nation involving yourself in something that is fixt to the USA exclusively and it's not your place to sway opinion to alter/change(however miniscule it might be) in my nation.. Anymore than it would be my place to go onto an Aussie gun forum and do something similar. And before someone retorts "gunboards it an international community" indeed it is. RKBA however is not.

The real problem as I see it is that one side wants to post quotes from the founding fathers, the other side wants to label those people extremists and have them censored/on a list/jailed for doing so. So I agree with you "a house divided" and indeed one side wants the constitution as written.. the other side apparently wants a King to tell them how to live. They are two completely different mindsets.
 

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So I agree with you "a house divided" and indeed one side wants the constitution as written.. the other side apparently wants a King to tell them how to live. They are two completely different mindsets.
+1
Well put.
 

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Think most of the world has moved on from Kings as a political entity and, in the western world, have some form of elective democracy, even unpalatable to some.
By the by , Lincoln paraphrased Mathew 12:25.
 

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The real problem in this country is not just there is political division of large urban areas from less urbanized areas and also a split of white working people from the democratic and to some extent the traditional aspects of the republican party, there has been a tremendous concentration of wealth world wide into the possession of a very few. They really do call a lot of the shots as to what happens.
I think big western money wants more access to Russian natural resources. Russia currently is in control of major sources for gas into some parts of western europe. I am sure that many there are not happy with that state of affairs.

Oil and Gas Pipelines
Russia has some of the largest natural gas and oil reserves in Europe. The future of European development may rest on Russia's energy supply to the heart of the continent.

Map by Virginia W. Mason, National Geographic


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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Staffy,

Once again.. You're from another nation involving yourself in something that is fixt to the USA exclusively and it's not your place to sway opinion to alter/change(however miniscule it might be) in my nation.. Anymore than it would be my place to go onto an Aussie gun forum and do something similar. And before someone retorts "gunboards it an international community" indeed it is. RKBA however is not.

The real problem as I see it is that one side wants to post quotes from the founding fathers, the other side wants to label those people extremists and have them censored/on a list/jailed for doing so. So I agree with you "a house divided" and indeed one side wants the constitution as written.. the other side apparently wants a King to tell them how to live. They are two completely different mindsets.
I agree with the above whole heartedly. While I enjoy viewpoints from people from other nations, when they involve themselves in our politics, I take issue with that. And I guess I've been subject to throwing my opinion out there of other country's laws, so maybe I'm being hypocritical I don't know. Still, it's easy for people who don't enjoy our freedoms, to knock and trash them. In reality I'm sure these same people harbor some intense jealousy for what we have and they don't.
 

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I agree with the above whole heartedly. While I enjoy viewpoints from people from other nations, when they involve themselves in our politics, I take issue with that. And I guess I've been subject to throwing my opinion out there of other country's laws, so maybe I'm being hypocritical I don't know. Still, it's easy for people who don't enjoy our freedoms, to knock and trash them. In reality I'm sure these same people harbor some intense jealousy for what we have and they don't.
It was events like the buffalo shooting that were used to extinguished the rights of Australians and New Zealanders to possess and bear arms.
But neither country fought a revolutionary war or had a civil war. But both treated their indigenous populations as badly as we did.
 

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It was events like the buffalo shooting that were used to extinguished the rights of Australians and New Zealanders to possess and bear arms.
But neither country fought a revolutionary war or had a civil war. But both treated their indigenous populations as badly as we did.
Well.....there were land wars fought down here,and some pretty savage fighting took place.As far as indigeneous populations well there really are none as everyone here's ancestors originally arrived by boat and brought their language and culture with them,and that includes the 'natives' (Maori).Who BTW get treated with often preferential treatment these days over any other ethnic group down here,as a matter of Govt policy.Not that I agree with that everyone should be equal under the law and treated the same but thats not the reality at present.
 

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Well.....there were land wars fought down here,and some pretty savage fighting took place.As far as indigeneous populations well there really are none as everyone here's ancestors originally arrived by boat and brought their language and culture with them,and that includes the 'natives' (Maori).Who BTW get treated with often preferential treatment these days over any other ethnic group down here,as a matter of Govt policy.Not that I agree with that everyone should be equal under the law and treated the same but thats not the reality at present.
On the land wars, did you fight against the british crown to set up an independent country and then a few years later fight a second war against them. In the second war the brits burned Washington DC.
Your land wars just sound like some of our indian wars that went on until about the late 1880's or so starting in the 16th century.
the Maoris were there in New Zealand before the whites and were the indigenous peoples, even if they were not the first there. Just sounds like an excuse to have taken their land.

The New Zealand Wars, sometimes called the Land Wars and also once called the Māori Wars, were a series of conflicts that took place in New Zealand between 1845 and 1872. The wars were fought over a number of issues, most prominently Māori land being sold to the settler (white) population.
Many of the american indian tribes came from other places displacing other peoples such as the Aztecs and the Apaches that came out of the north. The cherokee were another tribe that eventually got involved in enslaving other native americans for the Brits. There are even a number native americans in the southeast that originated in southern mexico and how they got into the Appalachians mountains I do not know.
You know very early in our history we invaded Mexico and occupied mexico city. The USA ended up with the states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado from Mexico. Spain was in control of Florida when the US got its independence and by 1821 Andrew Jackson was there to see them leave.

Maps of Indians forced to leave their lands and forcibly marched great distances so whites could have their lands. Some hid out in the southern mountains and are still present near their ancestral lands.
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N.Z . Colonial history goes back beyond the Maori wars and not all tribes were hostile to European settlement.
The Musket wars between 1807 - 1830's were tribal conflicts in which those tribes trading with the British, caused a restructured the tribal power base in N.Z.
Again in the later Maori wars there was no unity between the various groupings in opposing settlement.
It should not be forgotten, U.S. expansionism/colonialism also continued into the late 1890's, Hawaii, Cuba and Philippines.
But, I suppose, colonialism had somewhat mellowed by that time when compared to earlier times.
"What did the Romans do for us"? vide Monty Python.
 

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N.Z . Colonial history goes back beyond the Maori wars and not all tribes were hostile to European settlement.
The Musket wars between 1807 - 1830's were tribal conflicts in which those tribes trading with the British, caused a restructured the tribal power base in N.Z.
Again in the later Maori wars there was no unity between the various groupings in opposing settlement.
It should not be forgotten, U.S. expansionism/colonialism also continued into the late 1890's, Hawaii, Cuba and Philippines.
But, I suppose, colonialism had somewhat mellowed by that time when compared to earlier times.
"What did the Romans do for us"? vide Monty Python.
Tribes of native peoples were seldom united against outsiders like the Europeans coming in and as often as not fought each other also. If they were friendly they often did not last too long except for those that became part of the spanish missions.
Cuba was not exactly a colony and large numbers of peoples from the US did not migrate there. But the big sugar companies got in and operated huge plantations and I do not know how that was done.
Puerto Rico did become a possession of the USA and they are allowed to enter the USA freely and vis versa. But they are not a state of the USA. The Philippines was similar to Cuba and that after we finally conquered or I should say temporary suppressed the moros we also did not send huge numbers of settlers. They are now an independent country. The native population of Hawaii did get submerged in immigrants from asia and some from the USA and it is now a state. Those people still exist and are at the bottom of the social scale. We took some other island chains that if it was not for military installations would have very little value to the USA.
The thing is we took half of Mexico and quietly the Mexicans do want it back.
But that is very small potatoes compared to what Queen Victoria Ruled.
In general for organized countries, if they did not let colonists in, they tended not get colonized. Japan is an example of such. They allowed the Dutch the tiniest dock where they were required to stay at.
Ethiopia being Christian, Inland, with a strong civil authority finally only had problems with the Italians. If the Aztec or the Incas had massacred the men of cortez or pazzaro when they first landed, the would have lasted a lot longer.
But huge countries like China and India were readily taken over.
 

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I agree with the above whole heartedly. While I enjoy viewpoints from people from other nations, when they involve themselves in our politics, I take issue with that. And I guess I've been subject to throwing my opinion out there of other country's laws, so maybe I'm being hypocritical I don't know. Still, it's easy for people who don't enjoy our freedoms, to knock and trash them. In reality I'm sure these same people harbor some intense jealousy for what we have and they don't.
I tend to agree with that - until I think back to the '70s (1770s) and the interference (much to our advantage) in our Rebellion by the King of France. And the Stadtholder of Holland... Then I wonder a bit.
 

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Surreptitious arms supplies from France initially and active beneficial participation by their Army plus Navy.
Sam Neill the actor did a TV programme on Cook and his voyages, in which he did 2 episodes on N.Z. In the 2nd, he was rabbiting on about colonialism generally in discussion with a Mauri Professor of Indigenous History. There were at least 26 major tribal groups in the north island alone and more than 40 if the hapu are included.
He was tut tutting that a member of the ship's company had swopped his white linen undergarments for a native head. She smiled and replied the Mauri had the better deal. He would be the only Mauri with white linen dacks, enhancing his Mana, and there were plenty of heads to be had.
Give Neill credit for not having the exchange cut.
A study of the traditional 'pa' and the transition to the 'modern pa', as a consequence of the wars is instructive.
 

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Maps of Indians forced to leave their lands and forcibly marched great distances so whites could have their lands. Some hid out in the southern mountains and are still present near their ancestral lands.
Read up on John Ridge and the Treaty Party. Major John Ridge was a Cherokee who married a white woman and served under Andrew Jackson at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend. Andrew Jackson thought very highly of him due to his bravery on the battlefield and their shared hardship. Leveraging that influence with President Jackson He became a wealthy Cherokee who basically sold his people out when he saw Georgia tried to annex Cherokee Territory. The SCOTUS ruled that Georgia's move was illegal and that the Tribes land was untouchable by the states or the US Government but by that time, Ridge had seen to it that most of the tribe was already in the west. Ridge was considered a traitor by many of the Cherokee Tribal members and the opposing "Ross Party" (named after Georgia Senator Ross who refused to sign the annex bill and begged the tribes to wait until the SCOTUS case ran its course) murdered John Ridge and his family.
 
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Totally agree,I have always believed that the best hope of putting a stop to these events is denying the perpetrators any publicity or attention/notoriety what-so-ever.I am quite certain that is what is driving them so deny them this,deal with them in a speedy manner and then administer proper justice.
100 pct agree with you
 
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