[barnetmill]

A bunch of people died today at the hands of a lunatic who had no business having a firearm … and this is how you respond? Try harder not to be an asshole.

I would say had not business breathing. I read on some other site that he has an AR with fixed magazine that converted back to using detachable mags. He also had body armor.

The shooter (18 year old kid) wrote a 180 page manifesto detailing everything he was planning. Some takeaways, the weapons he used old school AR with iron sights and carry handle, legally bought in NY with pinned 10 round mag that he converted back to detachable. Mossberg shotgun, savage axis xp bolt action rifle. All budget priced guns but not much is needed to shoot unarmed civilians. I don’t like the language used in his manifesto for the weapons he chose. He talked about choosing the AR because it is the ultimate weapon of war, was easily converted back to detachable mags, etc. Was also wearing body armor which NY would like to ban. Seems he checked all the boxes for giving the liberals reason to ban guns.

This guy lived several hours away but seemed to have cased the store a few times. He had a map with locations of store security and planned to shoot the security guard through the glass before entering the store. Local news is reporting half the dead were head shots, so he did better than the average mass shooter we see. Also, keep in mind that he was wearing a Kevlar helmet in addition to body armor. So would likely take a good face shot, not just head shot to take him down (or armpit shot where there is no body armor coverage).

 

[barnetmill]

18 years old. How do you develop this kind of hate and mindset in only 18 years? At 18 I was so excited to LIVE my life. Lived through VN and my excitement doubled. You have to wonder why this youngster threw away his life like this? Now to be subjected to a prison FULL of people he supposedly hates. Weird psychology going on here.

Mental illness of the worst kind. But he seems sane enough to stand trial.

 

[barnetmill]

He had high capacity magazines, which are illegal in NY. It was reported he bought the rifle legally and it was an AR type rifle that so many of these guys like to use. And as far as the slap about dimocraps, you can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was the Republicans that were heavily involved in the Jan. 6th attempt to overthrow a dully elected president, not the Dems.
VWMAN.

What do Jan 6 riots have to do with an AR NY State politically correct rifle being converted to use illegal magazines. Biden has already been talking about the Buffalo shooting. So far what he said is within the pale, but there will be more to follow that is not.

 

[barnetmill]

My response to his post was the Republicans are far from a perfect party themselves. They both have issues. He was the one who dragged party affiliation into it. I believe he is WRONG!
VWMAN.

His statement was: "Let's see how long it takes the Dimocraps to call for an assault weapons ban. " And you showed nothing to proved him in error. It is the democratic party that is calling for bans on firearms and not the republicans.
My reading between the lines is that you seem to support or least do not condemn the call of the democrats to ban AR15 rifles and your only response was your point of view about the Jan 6 capitol violence. I do not see the two as being the same. I certainly do not agree with the useful idiots on Jan 6 and I certainly do not agree with anyone trying to take my personal property away from. But for sure one does not cancel out or equate to the other.

 

[barnetmill]

If this was Nazi Germany many of the Jan. 6th protestors would be DEAD or in a special camp wishing they were dead. I'm getting VERY bored about the talk about election fraud, either put it out in the open or shut up! It's all right wing bullshit.

VWMAN have you become a moderator? If not where do you come being so impolite.
"""or shut up""" I object to anyone saying such things here.
While I very much dislike what I describe as anti-2nd amendment views on a gun forum, I am not demanding that someone stop expressing those views.
You do need to learn some manners Sir. I am neither a Trump or Biden supporter by the way. But looks like Biden after less than two years has made a bigger mess of things and cost me higher pricing from food, fuel, to ammo. But I admit i did buy a box of fed lead HV solids today for $3.54/50.

 

[barnetmill]

Strident calls for guncontrol and clamp down on social media after Buffalo shooting
headlines below.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Sunday that social media companies have to address and track down extremism on their platforms, after a gunman who reportedly espoused white supremacist ideology opened fire at a Buffalo, New York, supermarket on Saturday, killing at least 10.

 

[barnetmill]

I see an option in each post on the upper right corner, 3 dots. Under that we can select REPORT. I tied it once and nothing happened. Maybe a few more would get some attention.

Moderators read posts and I would let it go at that. I rather tell someone directly to their face in a civil manner rather than the knife in back that liberals typically pull against me.

 

[barnetmill]

OK, where's your PROOF of election fraud! Put your money where your mouth is! Jan 6th actually happened! Election fraud did not! Get your xxxx …
VWMAN.

Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[barnetmill]

Can I offer you a ladder so you may climb down out of our *** when it comes to US politics/our second amendment?

Thanks mate.

What startles me is the number of anti gunners on a gun forum.. Some of the same names that routinely defend the gov in their choices to further strip gun rights away.. Semi autos BAD.. body armor BAD.. basically anytime Joe Sippy Cup or ATF says or does anything anti gun, this same group is on A. Defending it and B. Bringing up some unrelated event like Trump, Jan 6th or the price of tea in China.

I don't doubt these people own some old surplus bolt actions, I don't doubt they truly enjoy collecting. But it's clear to them guns are a "privilege" and not a right.

This is collectors forum and the rank and file is different from a typical gun forum.
First thing the posters and moderators are intelligence wise are a step above what is found elsewhere on other forums and this leads to a larger range of opinions.
Being collectors means that some here tend to be into weapons (I say weapons and guns) that are not at the moment at max attention of the antigunners. Some of these people may also have type 03 Collector of Curios and Relics license. So perhaps some feel a slight empowerment and identification with the government. So the mindset can be different for some here and also the nation is about half democrat and so this will include some collectors.

 

[barnetmill]

There are also a lot of other countries on these forums whose citizenry comes from a different system. Societies where the power the Govern is not derived from the people and certain rights such as Defense from Tyranny are not inherent rights but rather privilege's "Granted by Your Leave" from the ruling establishment. Even in the United States, we are losing the mindset required to maintain such a Government system that the power to Govern is derived from the consent of the Governed. Freedom is not security but rather the complete opposite of it.

People act in accordance with the framework their mindset was constructed upon. That is why my in-laws, who grew up in Socialism are perfectly happy to eat a boiled potato, no butter, no salt, for dinner even when given the choice of something better. At times, They even go so far as virtue signal about how little they require to be happy and are not greedy like their daughter.

The opinions I am often referring to come from native born americans.

 

[barnetmill]

The real problem in this country is not just there is political division of large urban areas from less urbanized areas and also a split of white working people from the democratic and to some extent the traditional aspects of the republican party, there has been a tremendous concentration of wealth world wide into the possession of a very few. They really do call a lot of the shots as to what happens.
I think big western money wants more access to Russian natural resources. Russia currently is in control of major sources for gas into some parts of western europe. I am sure that many there are not happy with that state of affairs.

Oil and Gas Pipelines
Russia has some of the largest natural gas and oil reserves in Europe. The future of European development may rest on Russia's energy supply to the heart of the continent.

Map by Virginia W. Mason, National Geographic

 

[barnetmill]

I agree with the above whole heartedly. While I enjoy viewpoints from people from other nations, when they involve themselves in our politics, I take issue with that. And I guess I've been subject to throwing my opinion out there of other country's laws, so maybe I'm being hypocritical I don't know. Still, it's easy for people who don't enjoy our freedoms, to knock and trash them. In reality I'm sure these same people harbor some intense jealousy for what we have and they don't.

It was events like the buffalo shooting that were used to extinguished the rights of Australians and New Zealanders to possess and bear arms.
But neither country fought a revolutionary war or had a civil war. But both treated their indigenous populations as badly as we did.

 

[barnetmill]

Well.....there were land wars fought down here,and some pretty savage fighting took place.As far as indigeneous populations well there really are none as everyone here's ancestors originally arrived by boat and brought their language and culture with them,and that includes the 'natives' (Maori).Who BTW get treated with often preferential treatment these days over any other ethnic group down here,as a matter of Govt policy.Not that I agree with that everyone should be equal under the law and treated the same but thats not the reality at present.

On the land wars, did you fight against the british crown to set up an independent country and then a few years later fight a second war against them. In the second war the brits burned Washington DC.
Your land wars just sound like some of our indian wars that went on until about the late 1880's or so starting in the 16th century.
the Maoris were there in New Zealand before the whites and were the indigenous peoples, even if they were not the first there. Just sounds like an excuse to have taken their land.

The New Zealand Wars, sometimes called the Land Wars and also once called the Māori Wars, were a series of conflicts that took place in New Zealand between 1845 and 1872. The wars were fought over a number of issues, most prominently Māori land being sold to the settler (white) population.

Many of the american indian tribes came from other places displacing other peoples such as the Aztecs and the Apaches that came out of the north. The cherokee were another tribe that eventually got involved in enslaving other native americans for the Brits. There are even a number native americans in the southeast that originated in southern mexico and how they got into the Appalachians mountains I do not know.
You know very early in our history we invaded Mexico and occupied mexico city. The USA ended up with the states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado from Mexico. Spain was in control of Florida when the US got its independence and by 1821 Andrew Jackson was there to see them leave.

Maps of Indians forced to leave their lands and forcibly marched great distances so whites could have their lands. Some hid out in the southern mountains and are still present near their ancestral lands.

 

[barnetmill]

N.Z . Colonial history goes back beyond the Maori wars and not all tribes were hostile to European settlement.
The Musket wars between 1807 - 1830's were tribal conflicts in which those tribes trading with the British, caused a restructured the tribal power base in N.Z.
Again in the later Maori wars there was no unity between the various groupings in opposing settlement.
It should not be forgotten, U.S. expansionism/colonialism also continued into the late 1890's, Hawaii, Cuba and Philippines.
But, I suppose, colonialism had somewhat mellowed by that time when compared to earlier times.
"What did the Romans do for us"? vide Monty Python.

Tribes of native peoples were seldom united against outsiders like the Europeans coming in and as often as not fought each other also. If they were friendly they often did not last too long except for those that became part of the spanish missions.
Cuba was not exactly a colony and large numbers of peoples from the US did not migrate there. But the big sugar companies got in and operated huge plantations and I do not know how that was done.
Puerto Rico did become a possession of the USA and they are allowed to enter the USA freely and vis versa. But they are not a state of the USA. The Philippines was similar to Cuba and that after we finally conquered or I should say temporary suppressed the moros we also did not send huge numbers of settlers. They are now an independent country. The native population of Hawaii did get submerged in immigrants from asia and some from the USA and it is now a state. Those people still exist and are at the bottom of the social scale. We took some other island chains that if it was not for military installations would have very little value to the USA.
The thing is we took half of Mexico and quietly the Mexicans do want it back.
But that is very small potatoes compared to what Queen Victoria Ruled.
In general for organized countries, if they did not let colonists in, they tended not get colonized. Japan is an example of such. They allowed the Dutch the tiniest dock where they were required to stay at.
Ethiopia being Christian, Inland, with a strong civil authority finally only had problems with the Italians. If the Aztec or the Incas had massacred the men of cortez or pazzaro when they first landed, the would have lasted a lot longer.
But huge countries like China and India were readily taken over.

 

[barnetmill]

I tend to agree with that - until I think back to the '70s (1770s) and the interference (much to our advantage) in our Rebellion by the King of France. And the Stadtholder of Holland... Then I wonder a bit.

We also had volunteers from other countries.

 

[barnetmill]

caerlonie said:
Totally agree,I have always believed that the best hope of putting a stop to these events is denying the perpetrators any publicity or attention/notoriety what-so-ever.I am quite certain that is what is driving them so deny them this,deal with them in a speedy manner and then administer proper justice

100 pct agree with you

The best way is make things so that any one attempting such mayhem will most likely be killed the moment they try to do something like that.
Stop creating free gunzones that only create safe working conditions for maniacs.

 

[barnetmill]

Read up on John Ridge and the Treaty Party. Major John Ridge was a Cherokee who married a white woman and served under Andrew Jackson at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend. Andrew Jackson thought very highly of him due to his bravery on the battlefield and their shared hardship. Leveraging that influence with President Jackson He became a wealthy Cherokee who basically sold his people out when he saw Georgia tried to annex Cherokee Territory. The SCOTUS ruled that Georgia's move was illegal and that the Tribes land was untouchable by the states or the US Government but by that time, Ridge had seen to it that most of the tribe was already in the west. Ridge was considered a traitor by many of the Cherokee Tribal members and the opposing "Ross Party" (named after Georgia Senator Ross who refused to sign the annex bill and begged the tribes to wait until the SCOTUS case ran its course) murdered John Ridge and his family.

"Ridge was considered a traitor by many of the Cherokee Tribal members "

Very common to buy off important people that will betray their brethren. The leaders of the hungarian jewish community were said to have sold out the hungarian jews so that they had safe passage out of the country. I do not know the truth of it, but it is believable.

 

[barnetmill]

As I understand it, Ridge did not have to be "bought off". He was very much in on the entire plan from conception with an eye on becoming wealthy even at the expense of his own people. That's why they murdered him. It certainly is not a case of the "nature people" being betrayed by the "evil materialistic white man". Nor is it a situation where one can claim the United States was in on it as the SCOTUS ruled it was illegal for the US Government to touch Indian Lands or violate agreements.

It is a bit of semantics, but if he was in it from the beginning he was bought off in a sense hoping to profit for the dispossession of the land. There was talk of gold. People had been mining gold in Georgia since the times of the spanish. There are claims of Sephardic Jewish miners in Georgia during the 17th century.

 

[barnetmill]

Exactly

And unlike the narrative being pushed by Democrats, Greed and lack of character are human traits that have nothing to do with skin color.

Fact is an oppressed individual at the bottom is no less likely to be corrupt if riches are in sight.