[nwellons]

I've been wondering what per centage of SCW Imperial M91s were scrubbed.

If I use the only one I have, it would be 0% but since that is such a small sample, I would like to hear from others. Actually, the barrel crest is clean but the receiver was overstamped by the Soviets.

 

[martin08]

I only have one M91 SCW. It is a Remington, and it is not scrubbed.

 

[USMCsean]

I have an early 1920s example and it's not scrubbed.

 

[clayshooter2]

My 1916 PTG is not scrubbed.

 

[nwellons]

Thanks everyone.

Racerguy, your PM box is full. Could you check your SCW photos you have mentioned and see what you have in Imperial SCWs?

Thanks,

Neal

 

[Iron_Colonel]

Here are some receiver/shank pics of some SCW rifles I have/had. I don't recall any Imperial SCW rifles I have had being scrubbed.

 

[racerguy00]

Does a '22 Tula with the crest on the recycled receiver peened before the Tula hammer applied count?

 

[mat!_SW]

nwellons- check the link to the survey forum in my signature. There have been a few posted in that thread that may be of use to you.

 

[SwingingSniper]

My one SCW M91 is unscrubbed.

 

[nwellons]

Does a '22 Tula with the crest on the recycled receiver peened before the Tula hammer applied count?

It could be like the one I posted. I am considering calling ones like that unscrubbed because the Soviets did not scrub the Imperial Eagle from the barrel. As to yours, after the revolution, I'm not sure where to put it in this survey.

 

[Iron_Colonel]

I thought I had more. I don't believe I forgot about this one too!!

 

[nwellons]

nwellons- check the link to the survey forum in my signature. There have been a few posted in that thread that may be of use to you.

I checked the survey and found 3 Imperial M91s that had photos showing the Eagle areas.

None were scrubbed.

 

[nwellons]

Here is my train of thought so far:

It is related to who scrubbed the M91s. Often I hear the Soviets during and after the revolution but I'm not so sure.

It is hard to tell where most M91s went after they were manufactured. It is hard to tell where most M91s were during and after the revolution.

But we know Stalin sent over 100,000 M91 to Spain (Gerald Howsin - "Arms for Spain"). These are generally pretty easy to identify, especially if they had the Made in USSR (URRS) marks.

So far, it seems that the large majority of Imperial M91s that went to Spain were not scrubbed. If the communists were really motivated to remove all traces of the Tsar, why did they skip so many Mosins?

Of course that does not shed any more light than all the speculation we have had on who did scrub/peen so many M91s but it may eliminate the communists.

Or is my reasoning all wrong?

Please let me know what you think.

Neal

 

[racerguy00]

Here are four that I have documented. Not mine. '94 Tula # 154513, '99 Tula 9743, '08 Izhevsk 216xx, and '16 Tula 1207xx.
All SCW, not scrubbed.

 

[gwurly]

Here are some receiver/shank pics of some SCW rifles I have/had. I don't recall any Imperial SCW rifles I have had being scrubbed.

Real nice! I'm jealous!

 

[Iron_Colonel]

Thanks gwur. Interesting 4 marks on the PTG. All are SCW vets.

Interesting question nwellons poses also about the Tsar and communists and why they didn't take the Imperial crest off. Many were sent as aid to other countries, but not all countries removed the Imperial, or otherwise Soviet marks either. As we know, the SCW spanned in to the Soviet era, and there was a plethora of rifles that were sent as aid. Not just Mosins. Mausers too. Mosins vs Mausers it would appear.

And while nwellons poses this questions, I'd like to pose another. How about hearing from SCW Mauser or other rifle owners. Any scrubbed or removed marks on them that are known to have been done during or for the SCW?

 

[50ydPHIL]

0% of mine are scrubbed.

I'm leaning towards the Balkans doing most of the scrubbing.

 

[Iron_Colonel]

I'm thinking so too Phil.

But there are some strange Finn/Finn cap rifles that have an element of scrubbing to them too. Sometimes we have seen a dished out area where an Imperial proof would have once been too. I'd guess that was done during non war/battle times for assembly or rearsenal, whatever they did. But far more Finn influenced rifles are seen without scrubbed Imperial or Soviet marks.

 

[50ydPHIL]

I'm convinced that the "dished out area" just behind the rear sight is an attempt to solve the high shooting often associated with M91s, especially when (front) sights are swapped around. It often allows the rear sight slider go down a bit further. Just too deep, at too steep of an angle, and usually not all of the stamping is removed.
Seen on some Balkan, Finn, and SCW.

I'm curious as to why only some, and not all rifles had this done. Usually rifles are considered too important to let some armorer do whatever he felt like doing, without specific instruction from way higher up. And conscripts grinding on government property was likely frowned upon.

Soviets and Finns seem to have scrubbed barrel shanks at refurbishment to re-stamp information, like serial numbers and dates. Mostly on 91/30s I think.
I have a couple of Soviet refurb 91/30s with sanding on the side, and underside of the shanks, presumably to improve the fit of the barreled action into the stock(?)

 

[Iron_Colonel]

Perhaps I should have been more specific with the term "dished out" area. I am not referring to the area ground off at the front edge of the barrel shank. There was another Balkan related thread where this was also discussed, and I agree, it must have been ground off to allow the rear sight to sit lower. Which is why I believe the Balkan countries peened in to place the "Balkan wedge" in the rear sight. Allow me to show an example to illustrate this.

With the Balkan wedge:


Without the Balkan wedge that was removed or fell out somehow and also has the front edge of the barrel shank ground:



By the dished out area I was referring to was a sometimes seen machined out "dimpled" area on a top receiver flat of recycled receivers the Finns used when they made their own models.