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Imported from the Third Board, thread started in the interstice:

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happy harry
Topic: S&L M24 question
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 at 9:52pm

In one of the earlier threads, a number of you received the Schultz & Larsen History book. I hope enough time has passed where you have been able to read through and be able to answer some questions about the history of the S&L Model 24? Does the book give the production dates, total number produced, significance of the barrel numbering (ex. which numbers were produced in which year), or any interesting facts about the design and development of this specific rifle? I'd appreaciate any comments concerning the changed from the Model 24 to the Model 70 (when, what changed, etc.). With the changeover to the new web design, some (all) of the great S&L pictures have been lost. Please post some more pictures...Thanks...HH

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Pettson
Posted: 24 Aug 2007 at 5:34am
Got the book, but I'm waiting for input from our resident S&L expert...

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kriggevaer
Posted: 24 Aug 2007 at 8:26am

Haven't quite got the M24 section translated yet, but will try today to get it done. Production numbers are iffy and there was a great time gap between the end of M24 production and the beginning of M70 production with several different .22LRRF models in between.

Records on production numbers and serials numbers before 1945 do not seem to have been recorded precisely and some records have been lost or destroyed. However, there is a small section that explains some of the serial numbering on the guns and I will try to finish that off soon also.

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arilar
Posted: 24 Aug 2007 at 9:45am

As I understand it:
nr. 24 started around 1924. nr.33 around 1933. Together ca. 13000 was produced. Nothing mentioned about production numbers. nr. 33 was, compared to nr.24, better lock, changed frontsight and another stock (diminished pistol-grip) easier to produce.
M 58 (production started around 1958 and estimated 4290 was made) was a better version of nr. 33. New dioptersight with "click-function" and "international" front-sight. same stock.
M 70 (came around 1960 with estimated 7450 produced) had same walnut stock as longrifle M69.
M 77 (came 1977 and around 3000 produced) with a trigger-system that was similar to longrifle M69.
Last came M 88 (came 1988 and only ca. 30 of them was produced) with triggerpull as low as 150 gram and U.I.T.-stock. the stocks was produced in germany. About 1000 of the same stocks and new trigger was mounted on earlier models.
nr.24- nr.33- M58-M70-M77-M88 was together produced in the amount of 28000 rifles. 4000 before WW2. 1945-1958 9144 produced. 1959-1968 4296 produced. 1969-1978 7434 produced. 1979-1988 3063 produced and finally 1989-1992 only 28 rifles produced. The last M88 was numbered 28230 the 24th of december 1992.
Regards,
ARILAR

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happy harry
Posted: 24 Aug 2007 at 9:56am

Great information. When I purchased my M24 earlier this year from Gander Mountain, I contacted the importer via e-mail and received the following reply (not sure just how accurate the info was from Denmark by the shipper at the time)...I checked with Gander Mountian and they received approximately 200 of the M24/M70s all stamped as M70s - so there seemed to be a mix of the two types of rifles.

"Numrich Importing, LLC is the importer of the S&L rifle you have. N.I., LLC is a separate company from Numrich Gun Parts Corporation. However, I work for both companies, and I am responsible for the purchase of these rifles on behalf of Numrich Importing. The rifles were imported to the U.S. in November 2006, and aside for a few individual sales on Gunbroker.com, we sold the rifles to Gander Mountain. It is possible that the rifle you have is actually a model 24, but because the Danish were famous for not marking their guns with a model number, it is difficult to be sure. And from a legal standpoint, we bought them as model 70's so we are required to mark them as model 70's. Here is an exact copy of the information that was provided to us shortly after we purchased these rifles from Denmark. (Including the spelling errors and the quirky translation from Danish to English). I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Neill Amodeo
Numrich Importing, LLC


Dear Mr. Amodeo
I have been asked to provide you with information the Schulz and Larsen M/70 rifles.

(You can find more information if you search on Google on "Otterup" - which is the Skandinavien used name for Schulz and Larsen.

First a little history:

After the defeat of the danish army 1864 in the war with Prussia, a line of "rifleclubs" spontaneously rised in Denmark, later turned to a rifleassosiation sponsered by the Danish Ministery of Interior. During the 1.world war the assosiation did help the danish army, providing socalled: Volonteer Batallions - to an extent even motorised, with "Indian" motorcucles and Madsen Machineguns.

Between the 1. and 2. world war the assosiation declined, due to a new law,phohibeting uniformed personel, and restricting arms. A gigantic rise of the assosiation started 1945 after the kapitalition of the German Forces in Denmark,and allthough a separation between the "rifleclubs" and a "Home Guard" was made 1949, the assosiation is still "alive and kicking" today, having around 60.000 -100.000 rifles and pistols in use.

In 1924 the "Otterup" ( Schulz and Larsen,Otterup Gewarfabrik) small caliber rifles was introduced, as an alternative to the used smallcaliber rifles of the "bavarian types" with Martini Action or Aydt Action.This is the M/24 (simple beech stock and number up to 9500.

In 1970 after some speculation,it was decided to improve the M/24, with a new adjustable bolt, a better diopter,and mainly a new stock of much better apperience.

It was called M/70 and was adopted by the DDS (Rifle assosiation) as a standard rifle for small caliper shooting, and its accurace is still outstanding,mainly because the Schulz and Larsen way of cutting the rifling in barrels - cut not hammered !! on machine from around 1890. There were made around of 19000 rifles of the model M/70.

The rifles was used in Norway and also in Sweden to some extent."
 

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just asking a couple questions.

Hello,

I have a m70 that is missing the stock original does anyone know where i could procure one? I also had 5, m24 in my possesion i got them from century arms last year. all of them have broken optics. does anyone know what model the sights were? some have the large globe frnt adn differign rear apature sights. I think they all were a williams variaty but none of them have any markings. were the sights made by otterup too?

-ryan
 

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Check the Gunbroker auction site as Numrich Parts has been selling various S&L target stocks on that auction.

The sights on the S&L target rifles were made by them in the Otterup factory, so replacement parts are not easy to come by. I have seen a very few on ebay over the years and other auction sites.
 

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The photo caught my eye as I was doing some surfing. I bought a rifle .22 cal that looks identical with a serial number of 21700 on the left side of the receiver. However, there are no numbers on the bolt or any other place. I also don't see a lot of info out there on Schultz & Larsen. I see there is a reference to a book but I couldn't find it anywhere on the internet. It must be a foreign publisher and I'm not sure who would carry it. My main question is what model is it and possibly what the date range might be.
 

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Hello tom66,
You have a Model 70 Schultz & Larsen which was introduced sometime in 1969/70 or there about and was replaced by the Model 77 around 1977/78, so your rifle was made in that time period. The Model 77 was an upgrade of the Model 70. A new adjustable trigger was fitted to the M77 rifle. They were intended for 15-50 meter shooting, primarily for the shooting clubs in Denmark. Just a wild guess, but from the serial number, I would say your rifle was produced around 1973/74. The Model 70 is a very good light/medium weight target rifle. The original family owned company shut the factory doors in 1994.
 

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Thanks for the clarification. I'm not a firearms expert so I'm wondering why the barrel is so thick? It is similar to some of the Russian TOZ .22 rifles.
 

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The Model 70 was intended to be a target rifle. Target rifles tend to have much larger diameter barrels to offset vibration and oscillation when the rifle is fired. This means, at least theoretically, that the rifle will be likely to shoot to the same point of impact every time it is fired, given that everything else has remainded unchanged. The everything else is largely the shooter's consistency in maintaining the same position, sight picture, trigger squeeze, and choice of ammo. A heavier barrel is also easier for a shooter to stabilize from co-axial movement. When you aim a rifle as steady as you can the muzzle will still trace a circular or elliptical path around its own bore centerline axis. The better marksmen understand this and so position stability is extremely important in reducing the diameter of the circular muzzle trace. This of course applies to the unassisted shooting positions, i.e., standing, prone, kneeling, sitting, etc.
 

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Thanks again for the explanation. Makes sense. I'll compare the Mod 70 with my Mauser ES340B and Mm410B when I shoot them and see if I notice the difference.

Tom
 

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Hello tom66,
You have a Model 70 Schultz & Larsen which was introduced sometime in 1969/70 or there about and was replaced by the Model 77 around 1977/78, so your rifle was made in that time period. The Model 77 was an upgrade of the Model 70. A new adjustable trigger was fitted to the M77 rifle. They were intended for 15-50 meter shooting, primarily for the shooting clubs in Denmark. Just a wild guess, but from the serial number, I would say your rifle was produced around 1973/74. The Model 70 is a very good light/medium weight target rifle. The original family owned company shut the factory doors in 1994.
Hi kriggevaer ,I have this S&L 22 cal. looks like a model 70 ,but first time I have seen one with a fluted barrel;did S&L make fluted barrels for these 22 cal. rifles,thanks in advance .....unclegeorge.
 

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Hi unclegeorge,

It is possible that the barrel was fluted by the factory, but I think more likely done by another party. Your M70 is exceptional in the quality of wood and metal finish. The M70 was produced mostly for use by the shooting clubs in Denmark, so the quality was there, but the finish was not as nice as yours from the factory. The types of custom work done by S&L for individuals is not well known, so we see some variations of the various models that may or may not have been done at the factory.
 

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Thank you all for your opinions,and advice,they are nice shooters,and cute little rifles.The S&L 22LR M70 target rifle is built like a tank and shoots like a laser,one 22lr rifle that is well made and well thought of by it's builder & maker's S&L.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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