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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Kokura Type 97 sniper in excellent condition, all matching, great bore and good war time finish. It is fitted with beautiful 2.5 scope that features a perfect grid and clean optics.
Some of my friends have suggested that shooting this example is unwise. One even claimed that the recoil could dislodge the grid.
Any comments? I'd like to take this to the range next week and put 20 or 30 rounds through it. It is clean and ready to go. I understand there is always risk to shooting vintage firearms..... and in that respect, will just keep it in the safe as it is one of my more prized pieces based on what this forum has to say. Thanks.
 

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Very “unwise.”
 

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Shoot the rifle, yes, why not.
Shoot it with the scope attached, NO.

I would not subject the scope to that kind of shock, unless the scope has already been reworked.
 

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Found one of those scopes mount hacked off once..clear as a bell..sorry to say.
its One of the purposes..of collecting a museum piece or a rifle to experience?
 

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I have two Type 97 and two Type 99 snipers. Several years ago I purchased a scope adapter made by Don Voight. They are around, but not being made anymore. I have two "vintage " Redfield adjustable scopes (one 2.5 and one 4.0) that I have used in place of my original scopes. What's nice about this is I can zero the scopes. I haven't fired these rifles in awhile but it was a lot of fun. I would not risk getting flakes in the optics of your original scope.

John in Northern Michigan
 

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Very likely that you will get the black specs if you shoot it with the scope on the rifle................I did with mine. You may want to check the alignment of your scope to the bore before you shoot. Many of these scopes are off so much in alignment, that it makes no sense to shoot it on the rifle, since you will be better off with the iron sights. With my Type 97, although the scope/mount does not match the rifle like most of them are, the alignment of the scope to the bore is nearly perfect. There is only a slight misalignment in elevation that is easily compensated for. Therefore, I really enjoy shooting with the scope on the rifle, and the black spots don't worry me. They will effect resale value only slightly if at all.

On my Type 99 sniper the alignment of the scope is so far off with the bore of the rifle, that it is no fun to try to use the scope. I have to hold under the target nearly 16 inches and to the left about 6 inches to get near the bullseye, so I usually remove the scope on this rifle before I shoot it.

Contrary to poplar belief, you can adjust the alignment of these scopes to some degree, but the alignment process itself will release the black specs which is paint on the inside of the scope.

The scope adapter mentioned above would be a great solution, if you could still find them.

DK Phillips quote above is food for thought: are you "collecting a museum piece or a rifle to experience?". Each individual must make his own decision on this.
 

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I shot a similar minty rifle and scope some years back and the once clear scope looked like someone had dumped some pepper into it. Made me sick, don't do it.
 

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Is there, no way to remove clean them..not knowing my self?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks to all for quick and solid advice. I am aware of the "alignment" issues and did not have high expectations.
She'll go back in the safe for now. The scope is a very tight fit, so I won't be taking it off.
I have 40 rounds of Steinel ammo if anyone wants to buy it. Send me a PM if interested.
 

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I have the same issue with a 99 lmg scope. It has issues with flakes and fog. I used it once. Luckily the grid is almost dead on for windage. I just have to hold on the center 4 for vertical zero impact. Since it had issues when I bought it I have no reservation on using it. If the optics were minty I would not use it. An LMG does not have a sharp recoil pulse like a rifle does. For me it's a no brainer with the rifle scope. Don't fire it with the scope attached.
 

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When I was young and shooting my weapons I used to shoot both my 97 snipers and the 99 sniper quite often with the original scopes attached- Usually on the first firing I would get black specks on the grid but there was a gentleman who would take them apart and clean them-After that they wouldn.t get any more specks upon firing-Don't remember his name but I have his contact information somewhere in this mess-Will try and find it -If I do I will post it on the board-Jim
 

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Hey Jim, when you were young, FDR was president. How can you be sure the gentleman who clean your scopes is still alive. You know you are probably going to outlive all of us. :)

I do remember a guy who frequented the Great Western Show who repaired German military sniper scopes. He did excellent work. I believe his name was Murphy or something like that. Does that ring a bell?

Russ
 

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Russ,when I was a kid,Hoover was president-
The gentleman who cleaned my scopes is named William Biller-Phone no. is 724 438 0399-
Hope is still around as he did very nice work and gave a quick turnaround time- Shot my snipers quite a bit after he cleaned them and never had a problem-Give him a call and find out-Good luck-Jim
 

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Russ,when I was a kid,Hoover was president-
The gentleman who cleaned my scopes is named William Biller-Phone no. is 724 438 0399-
Hope is still around as he did very nice work and gave a quick turnaround time- Shot my snipers quite a bit after he cleaned them and never had a problem-Give him a call and find out-Good luck-Jim
Good! Have 20-30 boxes 6.5 and a couple boxes 7.7. Having that telephone number gives me a lil more confidence in firing one of the snipers. Always wanted to do that. Maybe this fall when the weather cools
 

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My wife and I shot her Type-97 a few years ago and YEP! we got the black flecks in the scope. Well, being younger then I disassembled the scope-one small standard screw on each side of the scope-and the back of the scope slips off the front half that has the reticle in it. Use a can of compressed air to blow the black flecks out. Blow across the reticle and the eye optic to remove any flecks there. Slip the two halves back together and look through it see if there's still flecks. (There was! :( ) I took the halves apart again. The ocular lense (Has the cross hairs on it) is retained by a retainer ring that can be released by two narrow tweezer's tips. You want to carefully slide the tips in to the two spaces on the retainer for them. Unscrew carefully. I inverted the tube body over a thick cushioned piece of felt. The lense dropped out. Yep, flecks all over it. I wiped it off with lens cleaner AFTER I gently brushed the flakes off. Interestingly, the cross hairs on the lens are white! I then used the canned air to blow out the front of the body off the objective lens.

To reassemble- Years ago I spoke to an old scope maker. Back "in the day", scope cleaners would use a small drop of Oregon Balsam sap to "set" the lens so it wouldn't rotate as the locking ring is tightened. I use two tiny drops on the retaining ledge holding the lens in place. Used the tweezers to put the ring in place and tighten it. Put the bodies back together...Check it out if you want before putting the two body screws back in...& YOU'RE DONE.

Not too hard...Just be careful and work slow! :thumbsup:
 

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Russ,when I was a kid,Hoover was president-
The gentleman who cleaned my scopes is named William Biller-Phone no. is 724 438 0399-
Hope is still around as he did very nice work and gave a quick turnaround time- Shot my snipers quite a bit after he cleaned them and never had a problem-Give him a call and find out-Good luck-Jim
Jim, I was trying to be nice to you and not give away your actual age by saying FDR. ;)

Now that you mentioned the name William Biller, the name I was trying to remember was Bill Miller. Same guy? He was always at the Great Western show. May be Fred will give him a call and report back.

-tge
Russ
 

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I have fired several of my Japanese snipers. Sometimes I noticed little change in black specks and others times quite a few. Sometimes cleaning between the two halves helps and sometimes not much. Any solvent on the reticule is a definite no no.

The 97 sniper has a gentile recoil so less problems than with the 99s in my experience.

Best advise is not to shoot them with the correct scopes if you wish to avoid all risks. I do have one of Don's adapters for the 97s and kick myself for not getting one for the 99s. That is an excellent option. Considering what my last Kokura 99 scope cost me, it will likely never sit above a loaded chamber.
 

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I’ve got 8 or more different snipers. Not interested in shooting one with badly aligned scope, so will check alignment at the range before picking one to shoot. All but one have mismatched scope, so my confidence level is not real high at this point.

To repeat a story from the past, a Japanese individual told a friend that the reason for 99%+ mismatch on rifle/scope combos is due to Japanese handling of the rifles. The story goes that rifles were uncrated and assembled without regard to matching the scopes. Rifles were going to be re-zeroed anyway. I’ve come to accept this explanation because statistics cannot explain the number of mismatched rifles found.

I expect the matched 7.7 to have scope misalignment also and will check it out, then update this thread. Brought this up in a thread years ago but saw some members getting emotional with their reactions so lost interest in the thread.
 
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