[shockme77]

anyone have any clues to what the cartouches mean by the magazine? also what is the rifle worth?

 

[Rick the Librarian2]

The stock is a replacement from an early M1903A3 - the markings ahead of the trigger guard are subinspector markings when the stock was attached to the M1903A3

 

[Deputy Dan]

Sure... it is an 03A3 stock. The marks foward of the magazine are sub inspection stamps. It appears that bubba has "enhanced" Frank J Atwood's final inspection stamp... a very amateurish job at that.

 

[Deputy Dan]

Beat me to the punch, Rick.

 

[shockme77]

what is it worth?

 

[Deputy Dan]

Since it has been rebuilt, probably more than once, it's principle value is as a shooting specimen. How is the headspace, throat erosion and state of the bore with regard to wear and corrosion? Those are most of the concerns of someone who is looking for a shooter, and will have impact on the rifle's value.

 

[shockme77]

it passes the bullet test. Also how accurate are they when compared to the M1917?

 

[Mike Augustine]

The bullet test is a crude way to gauge bore erosion, so I wouldn't make that my single accuracy benchmark standard. If the crown is good, the bore is good, headspace and throat wear good and the stock is bedded well with the action it will probably make a fine shooter.

All things equal, no different than a M1917 in the accuracy dept.

Value: Ball park of $500 plus or minus.

 

[Deputy Dan]

The "bullet" test is a very poor estimation of muzzle wear. A muzzle wear gauge will give a proper reading... and all this tells one nothing of the throat erosion, which is read with a breech bore gauge. Is the bore exhibiting worn rifling, and is corrosion present? If Corrosion is present, are there huge craters, fine uniform pitting or just a hint of dullness to the bore.

There is no quick and easy answer to your question... without any further information, the rifle is worth what the CMP is/was selling them for, $500.

As to your accuracy question, everything depends upon the operator's skill. The rifle, as new, would have been capable of producing 3" groups at 100 yds. Some specimens can far exceed that, especially in the hands of a skilled shooter. Quality ammunition also plays a large role in accuracy. My average with an average M1903 is about 2 inches. I have a couple that will shoot 5 shot groups in the 1.25-1.5 inch range off a solid rest with good ammunition and if I execute marksmanship fundamentals properly.

I have found that the average M1903 is more accurate than the average M1917. I currently have 18 M1903s and have had up to 6 M1917s (currently 1). My 1917s average was always a little larger (1/2-3/4 inch) than my M1903 average, and I have had to work harder to get very small groups. I prefer the smaller aperature of the M1903 for target work.

 

[Mike Augustine]

Is there any trick to keeping the blade in view while shooting the 1903?

I shot one of my 1903s in a highpower match last year and I had a terrible time losing the front sight. Maybe its a practice thing, but the small aperature on the '03 sight coupled with middle aged eyes was tough. By match end my eyes were watering something terrible.

I prefer my 1917's sights, which are a little larger.

 

[Deputy Dan]

Mike, the aperature for the M1903 is tough on the eyes, and is difficult to use on overcast days. I have been using it as long as I can remember... I learned to shoot on an '03, and am most comfortable with it. Keeping the M1917 front sight in the exact same position in the aperature shot after shot is very difficult, and tends to open the group size some. You might want to try the repro USMC sights on your '03... they are a bit easier on the eyes. You might also want to switch to the "field of view" notch, it is the area that resembles a christmas tree on the sight leaf. It is an open sight that lets in a great deal of light.

 

[Mike Augustine]

I'll give that a try Dan, thanks for the advice.

Shockme77- Give that rifle a good try and see how it shoots. It may be a fine shooter.

My groups are in the six-eight inch range with Greek HXP using either rifle, which I figure is normal since they have the ( misfortune of having ) same shooter. The bigger 1917 aperature helps me a bunch. I wish I was doing this back in my teens/twenties. I realize my group sizes are pretty basic, but I have loads of fun competing against myself.

I'll try using the christmas tree. I have never seen or heard of USMC sights. I'll Google them and see what I can find.

 

[Deputy Dan]

Mike, if you have the time and inclination, you might want to cull through the HXP ammo, measuring them with a caliper and separate them into groups of similar seating depth. I was looking at a couple of boxes, and with the naked eye you can see the difference in seating depth even between cartridges in the same box. If you have something to measure bullet run out like the RCBS Case Master Gauging tool, you can eliminate another variable. Your group size should shrink a bit.

 

[A square 10]

its wearing a springfeild bbl - vintage 1930 ,

its a rock island receiver - vintage 1918/19 ,

 

[TANGERO]

Barrel might be original to the receiver. Rock Island quit building 03s at about this vintage of Receivers and they were sent to Sprimgfield where they were built into rifles many years later. Jim

 

[Deputy Dan]

Springfield Armory expended the last of the 1926 shipment of Rock Island receivers in early 1929... the barrel on this rifle is a little too late.

 

[A square 10]

a lot of WWIs were rebuilt at springfeild in late 20s-early 30s , i have a WWI springfeild with a 29 SA BBL ,

 

[Deputy Dan]

Indeed. The rebuild procedures utilized at Springfield Armory was discussed at length in a 1926 issue of Army Ordnance magazine. I believe that it is included in the reprint of Colvin and Viall's Manufacture of the 1903 Springfield, and is a great read. It is obvious that it was rebuilt at least once... it is very likely the original barrel was a RIA 1-19 or 2-19 barrel.

 

[A square 10]

my thoughts too , these are fun to discuss , and most interesting to speculate on , i like all the knowledge exchanged here , and appreciate the oppinions as well , but its most fun to get the referances offered for further research thanks for offering that

 

[Deputy Dan]

I need to dig out my copy of the rebuild article... it gives the actual criteria used for rebuilding, percentage of defects that caused the rifle to be shipped to the arsenal for rebuild, criteria for refinishing wood and metal components, inspection criteria for reuse of used components, etc. A priceless article.